Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable December 30, 2010
Topic: “What Do You Think Will Happen in Virtual Worlds in 2011?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are sitting in the amphitheater seats, we ask you to come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30 pm SLT for an hour.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our topic today is “What Do You Think Will Happen in Virtual Worlds in 2011?” and it will be in TEXT CHAT only
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: That means NO VOICE today 😀
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We will use Google Moderator to submit and vote on predictions to discuss first. Here’s the URL to use:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://www.google.com/moderator/#16/e=48a3d
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and with this small a group…
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Zola!
Josain Zsun: Cuzin Zola!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we should be able to get to all the ones posted already
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.
Zola Zsun: hi i got my meeting places mixed up
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please use the hash tag #VWER when you tweet about us (IM me if this sounds insane, as it would to my mom)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. 🙂 It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m Iggy, the scribe for this group, and I’m hosting today for AJ Brooks. If you’ve not seen the transcripts I run, you should check them out – they are a great information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why don’t we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: a small but happy group–don’t be shy tell us who you are
Perplexity Peccable: 🙂
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, City University of New York
Maggie Larimore: Nan Zingrone, Atlantic University
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I’ve taught four courses with SL and will move my teaching, including the House of Usher simulation, to Jokaydia Grid in 2011. Just ask for Roderick Usher over there!
Jewle Rae: Barbara Tomlin New Mexico via Oregon
Oronoque Westland: and may I say that House of Usher is FABULOUS
Ashy Viper: Ashraf Al-Allaf, Leeds University, PhD Student …Sociolinguistics
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank you, Oro! Labor of love
Pathfinder Lester: Pathfinder Lester (John Lester). Former employee of Linden Lab from 2005-2010. Currently Director of Community Development ReactionGrid, Inc.
Graham Mills: Peter Miller, biology teacher, Liverpool
Zola Zsun: Zola Zsun UTSA
Perplexity Peccable: Perplexity Peccable on most VWs, Patricia F Anderson or @pfanderson in social media, community manager for Wolverine island of the University of Michigan
Pathfinder Lester: I also blog at http://becunningandfulloftricks.com
Perplexity Peccable: 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: a great blog, that 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: it is
Maggie Larimore: love that blog, pathfinder
Pathfinder Lester: thanks!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else?
Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, visual info designer (and sl developer), oregon state university
Josain Zsun: Josain Zsun, Middle School, Tucson AZ, Isla Sonoita & VWER
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I really appreciate the turn-out on a holiday week 🙂
Piere Rhode: Piere, maths physics teacher in South Aus’
Josain Zsun: Only time I can attend
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: why we are not at home drinking eggnog today, Josain 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else?
Josain Zsun: Oh we can’t do that too?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have four predictions posted so far at
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=48a3d&t=48a3d.40
Zola Zsun: 🙂 i am home drinking eggnog 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I finished our quart the other day, Zola 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: if you wish to add a prediction or vote on one there, go ahead
Perplexity Peccable: I’ve been watching improved avatar customization tech lately
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we’ll begin with those that have the most votes, but I think we’ll get to all today with the small group
Ashy Viper: are the Christmas songs still on or is it just me still feeling festive??
Ignatius Onomatopoeia has sound off now, Ashy 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: ditto
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but we’ll see
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let’s begin with a prediction I made, while you add yours and vote
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “I think that a sizable number of institutions will downsize their investments in SL and will expand to OpenSim grids.”
Perplexity Peccable: yep
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m going to survey educators with a better survey than the one I did in fall
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ll do this in late January
Pathfinder Lester: cool
Josain Zsun nods
Arielion Clawtooth: I second that emotion
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my first survey attracted some snark from my old pal Prokofy Neva 🙂
Josain Zsun: Isn’t that his job?
Perplexity Peccable: surprise
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What I anticipate is about 50% downsizing or leaving
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I could be way wrong
Maggie Larimore: got to stay in that budget
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our island is closing in Jan
Arielion Clawtooth: I think security is everything with OpenSim
Arielion Clawtooth: If they get that right they’re gold
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what do the rest of you think, from those to whom you’ve spoken?
Arielion Clawtooth: that
Pathfinder Lester: Arielion, what aspects of security do you mean exactly?
Ashy Viper: Oh sorry everyone …I have to run …an important research issue has just come up!
Oronoque Westland: I am seeing a lot of people following through on their threats to leave SL or to downsize
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Areilion, my question as well. My stuff is all full perm and free to copy
Arielion Clawtooth: @Path behind firewalls, etc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: take care Ashy and watch for the transcript
Pathfinder Lester: you can already run opensim behind a firewall
Maggie Larimore: Insight Virtual College just moved to a smaller patch of land in the Chilbo neighborhood and are having a sim closing party tonight for their sim; so I think they’ve made that move, don’t know for sure
Arielion Clawtooth: I know, that’s what I mean. If they can handle all those security issues, and cheaply, they’ll be fine
Pathfinder Lester: gotcha. thanks for the clarification.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so schools will be taking a “wait and see” approach, then? That’s Oronoque’s prediction which I’ll quote now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Unfortunately, I think that many educational institutions and individual educators will reduce their involvement in Second Life and take a “wait and see” approach to other virtual worlds.”
Josain Zsun: I followed an interesting discussion about IT and lack of market controls earlier today.
Zola Zsun: a ot of people will take the wait and see i am sure
Zola Zsun: only the bold go forward … yayyy
Zola Zsun: 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I doubt my school will do more unless faculty ask for it. They are not.
Maggie Larimore: I’ve got a toe in RG and avatars in a couple of other worlds but I’m retail already so it’s not a pressing thing for me
Perplexity Peccable: the faculty have wanted SL to be easier, and they think of it not as a social space but as a tool
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zola, I agree with you. But some pioneers get scalped, too 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: i think schools will be doing a bit more than just “wait and see.” they may be waiting to execute on big plans, but I suspect many will be exploring other platforms on the side. even if it’s just doing something like running opensim on a usb key to test it out..
Arielion Clawtooth: I’ve heard that before “boldly going where no one has gone before..” :o)
Wrenaria Antiesse: we are keeping our SL region and dabbling in opensim
Perplexity Peccable: bop in, do yr thing, bop out
Maggie Larimore: but i wonder who SL thinks it’s customer base is, now that they’re trying to push education out
Perplexity Peccable: not much rich engagement
Oronoque Westland: not enough pioneering spirit among those who recently came to SL…they have one or two misadventures on an OS grid and are reluctant to stay
Zola Zsun: gotta take risks to move forward 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: Yes, Oronoque
Pathfinder Lester: Maggie, I find it is impossible to speculate on things like that.
Arielion Clawtooth: Yes, a lot of fear of change out there
Perplexity Peccable: my fac who tried OS bad mouths it now and won’t give it a 2nd try
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Maggie, it seems less “push out” than “bottom line” to me. I could be wrong. We’ll see what the new CEO does.
Maggie Larimore: oh I know you do, but then what does that say about the understandability of SL’s long term plans
Pathfinder Lester: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Perplexity, that may be like faculty who last tried the Mac OS in the mid 90s 🙂 OpenSim continues to improve.
Birdie Newcomb: Do they have any long term plans?
Graham Mills: I think we waste a lot of time trying to second-guess them
Maggie Larimore: well bottom line would have been better served if it had been timed to fit with universities fiscal years and budget plans, then they could have collapsed the discount and kept the customers
Pathfinder Lester: Graham, i agree.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: True. I’m trying to look forward and not speculate too much.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don’t forget: http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=48a3d&t=48a3d.40
Dabici Straulino: what are the factors which according to you would bring people to leave SL in addition to change in costing
Pathfinder Lester: better to simply observe what a company actually *does*….and then take action based on observed behavior.
Oronoque Westland: I think those schools where the Admins really feel that immersive education is a winner will test the OS waters, those where there was already reluctance or backsliding may see this as a chance to bail out
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and post your prediction
Perplexity Peccable: Iggy, that sounds right
Perplexity Peccable: it grows slowly
Perplexity Peccable: with a few passionate people
Maggie Larimore: that sounds right Oro
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Here’s one that I won’t post: with more academic publications, VWs will get more interest. Just like MOOs did in the 90s.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I have a sense that a lot more pubs are going to appear in 2011.
Zola Zsun: true i think
Maggie Larimore: true Iggy
Perplexity Peccable: VWs have HUGE impact & potential in health care
Josain Zsun: I predict LL will finally work on my 6 month old transfer ticket and Isla Sonoita will be relocated by CAVE sometime in 2011
Zola Zsun: yes, it is the area that seems to be using this platform more
Pathfinder Lester: speaking of academic publications, did you all see the new Journal of Virtual Worlds and Education just published their first issue. http://jvwe.org/
Perplexity Peccable: oh dear, Josain 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Zola’s prediction is also related to improvements that may bring in more users: “graphics abilities growing… more opportunities to show effectiveness of 3d virtual worlds due to the growing number of other worlds than sl… not long until VWs are like websites :)”
Pathfinder Lester: Josain, lol
Pathfinder Lester: hope springs eternal!
Zola Zsun: lol
Perplexity Peccable: Yes, Path – haven’t had a chance to look at it yet
Zola Zsun: i am amn optimist
Perplexity Peccable: was supposed to come out months ago
Birdie Newcomb: Looks academic
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: call them rascals by phone, Josain
Arielion Clawtooth: Yes, look how quickly the “hacks” of Kinect got spread. As folks on OS say “See what I did”? it will take off
Maggie Larimore: I think eventually we’re going to have cross-platform teleporting; that would be super good
Perplexity Peccable: Maggie, that is critical
Zola Zsun: it will happen
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zola, I’m a pessimist by nature but I’ve seen amazing changes since Windlight.
Zola Zsun: 🙂
Birdie Newcomb: Windlight?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I can run SL or OS well on my MacBook with graphics pumped
Pathfinder Lester: Maggie, cross platform between what platforms? like between SL and Opensim?
Maggie Larimore: what’s Windlight?
Josain Zsun dreams of TP to Wally workd then Circle K then Home
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hiya Birdie! Windlight was the revolution in graphics that came to SL in….2008?
Maggie Larimore: like between SL and OSGrids and RG and Inworldz and and and and
Pathfinder Lester: Maggie, gotcha.
Zola Zsun: eventually sl will have to connect to other VWs or it will be empty
Dabici Straulino: In a german island where I have taken some training a year ago, they now have a replica of their two SL SIms in Metropolis (OS for German speaking) and they use a stargate to jump from one to another
Birdie Newcomb: Oh, shadows and such
Maggie Larimore: ahh ok Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you have ever used the advanced sky settings under the World menu, you are playing with Windlight
Pathfinder Lester: there’s already cross platform teleporting between different opensim grids
Maggie Larimore: oh okay Iggy
Birdie Newcomb: stargates too
Maggie Larimore: well yes Path, and that’s so cool
Maggie Larimore: but from here to there … hmmm
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: post that punditry: http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=48a3d&t=48a3d.40
Arielion Clawtooth: It’s still a little tricky though.
Zola Zsun: yes i went with the explorers, pathfinder
Pathfinder Lester: LL experimented with teleports between SL and opensim back in 2008. but the project died on the vine.
Perplexity Peccable: I remember it
Josain Zsun: Will whisper be viable VOiP or will Skype be the OSG Voice standard?
Perplexity Peccable: the project survived, but SL pulled out
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ll grab a few photos for the transcript now 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: me, too 🙂
Josain Zsun preens
Perplexity Peccable: pics are my thing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no one is gray today
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Dabici Straulino: For anyone interested with the experience of the german adult school – see VHS island and the manager Chiria Celt
Oronoque Westland: Jokay is testing whisper now
Pathfinder Lester: and they just open sourced Whisper. http://bit.ly/f0sGZP
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: just one more at the Moderator page, and I think we have covered this:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ’s “Linden Lab will stall in trying to progress its Second Life product and will eventually recognize the need to connect to the opensim universe. They will impose strict requirements for hypergrid connectivity, but the open source community will yawn.”
Maggie Larimore: it’s always nice to be in a room with you Path, you fill up my browser!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ is such a provocateur 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: 😉
Perplexity Peccable: 😉
Pathfinder Lester: I don’t agree with that prediction by AJ. I predict LL will completely ignore interconnectivity.
Arielion Clawtooth: AJ’s passion about SL reminds me of a jilted lover. :o)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: That’s my guess, Path
Perplexity Peccable: I hate to admit it, but suspect Path is right
Zola Zsun: @ pathfinder.. till they have no populations
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why would Blizzard open up WoW to Everquest
Maggie Larimore: jilted with insight … 🙂
Graham Mills: I think the crucial thing is what we do with virIt’s a tough call — there’s other grids with their own economy now, not just SL
Arielion Clawtooth: Yes, His eyes have been opened
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I am covering InWorldz, also a closed grid, for Prim Perfect now
Graham Mills: lol, my chat got garbled — will try to work out what I meant <scratches head>
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s booming there…got greeted by mentors, met folks
Maggie Larimore: I like Inworldz, not crazy about Blue Mars
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ll try Blue Mars when the Cloud client emerges
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: why did you knot like it, Maggie?
Graham Mills: not crazy abt the current 350 MB download for Blue Mars
Perplexity Peccable: Blue Mars is not Mac friendly
Maggie Larimore: no cloud client
Zola Zsun: blue mars is kind of strange … only went there once
Perplexity Peccable: I made my av but couldn’t get in
Maggie Larimore: all that downloading and you can’t easily move anywhere
Wrenaria Antiesse: last time i tried blue mars it wasnt friendly, period
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hamlet Au’s pushing it hard. I do hope it succeeds.
Perplexity Peccable: 🙂
Wrenaria Antiesse: had trouble getting on it
Maggie Larimore: great looking Avi but hey; I’d rather be able to get around
Zola Zsun: lol
Zola Zsun: yeah
Arielion Clawtooth: Like a race car without an engine
Josain Zsun: I crashed on my several attempts at Blue Marsâ but I listen to it all the time
Maggie Larimore: LOL Ariel
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: speaking of getting around: I predict we’ll see vehicle physics in OpenSim for 2011 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I love driving my fake cars in SL
Dabici Straulino: InWorldz is very much like SL but to me the most limiting aspect is no voice, and hard to get a sense of what is out there. I do have a SIM there and will likely abandon it. Blue Mars is beautiful but not as easy to create as we do in SL.
Maggie Larimore: I have a Segway, how sad is that …
Perplexity Peccable: I heard the MICA geeks customized the physics engine for their OS implementation
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: hey, Maggie, none of mine plug in 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: so they could have accurate space battles
Maggie Larimore: well it’s a fake Segway
Dabici Straulino: challenge with trying other world is how much time you can invest
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that’s the way innovation often comes, from gamers 🙂
Maggie Larimore: LOL
Maggie Larimore: that’s me too Dab, I have a lot to do here
Maggie Larimore: so I dabble elsewhere
Arielion Clawtooth: “Faux” Segway sounds so much nicer
Maggie Larimore: LOL Ariel
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Does anyone think we’ll see any big VWs fold, the way Metaplace did in 09? or was it this year?
Perplexity Peccable: it was actually part of testing the space orbitals
Maggie Larimore: Ariel
Perplexity Peccable: Of course
Perplexity Peccable: VWs keep folding
Maggie Larimore: like which? Perp
Oronoque Westland: if grids like JokaydiaGrid and VWERGrid succeed, they will be models for other educators to follow
Birdie Newcomb: Some will grow, some not, like any industry
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL Maggie. I do have a RL Mini and a fake one. The fake one needs no washing or oil changes 🙂
You decline GRIDwrap 3pm Mon & Thurs Somnolenta Sea (152, 79, 23) from A group member named Tessa Harrington.
Perplexity Peccable: I am always surprised by which ones fold
Perplexity Peccable: I was surprised by lively
Perplexity Peccable: Lively
Maggie Larimore: that’s what I love about my fake house, no dust
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Google did not give it enough time. But I bet they’ll be back.
Perplexity Peccable: I hope so
Pathfinder Lester: if any “big” VW folds next year, I’d predict it would be Blue Mars. from the outside, Blue Mars feels like a company burning through VC $ with no significant revenue stream right now. those burns can’t last forever.
Perplexity Peccable: it was nice to have a crossroads
Ignatius Onomatopoeia needs fake dust for House of Usher 🙂
Birdie Newcomb: Has to have a working business model. I’m not so sure about rental as the basis
Perplexity Peccable: Path, I was wondering about them
Oronoque Westland: @Iggy, the ghosts might object
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Path, one wonders. Hamlet pushed the concert recently and the photo had maybe 4 people in the crowd…ouch
Perplexity Peccable: oh dear
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I recall that Suzanne Vega’s opening in SL had so many they had to be bald and barefoot to rezz.
Perplexity Peccable: I love Suzanne Vega
Ignatius Onomatopoeia too
Maggie Larimore: I had that experience at one of Path’s talks; crashed and had to come back with no bling and my system hair
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So other than graphics, what other tech improvements do you think we’ll see in 2011?
Birdie Newcomb: mesh, is that server intensive?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia lights RL pipe and waits 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: i really do hope Blue Mars pulls it off. the whole ecosystem of VWs will be better if they survive and grow.
Arielion Clawtooth: Hopefully with success and word of mouth there will be better acceptance
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don’t know, Birdie. I know that learning the design tools is rigorous work.
Birdie Newcomb: And come up with a Mac client
Perplexity Peccable: yep
Jewle Rae: wayss & methods of pushing bandwidth will improve large scale ~ anybody attended CES 2011?
Graham Mills: A lot of people pushing Unity3D as well
Pathfinder Lester: i think we’ll see folks doing interesting things with Kinect and virtual worlds.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Mac client for BM will be the Cloud client…looks good from the beta I saw demo’ed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Path, I’ve not followed the Kinect. What is it?
Pathfinder Lester: Microsofts console device
Pathfinder Lester: controlling things with your body and hands
Graham Mills: formerly Natal
Dabici Straulino: What do you think about trends to enter 3d from 2d browser like 3DExplorer?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: MS does good gaming hardware. Should be impressive.
Perplexity Peccable: very intrigued by Kinnect
Arielion Clawtooth: I have it. Very cool though not many titles yet
Birdie Newcomb: That I’m waiting for
Piere Rhode: Has anyone been experimenting with WII-Sl type interfacing, turning physical RL movements to Avatar movement?
Trebla Reve: BCI????
Pathfinder Lester: Piere, some folks have been doing that with Kinect
Birdie Newcomb: Might have to get up out of my comfy chair…
Perplexity Peccable: that is coming, but I haven’t gotten to play with it yet
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Piere, Hamlet Au has been blogging about that. I’ll find a link
Maggie Larimore: that would be cool
Perplexity Peccable: Yes, Birdie 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: would be good for me
Pathfinder Lester: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/12/kinect-hack-world-of-warcraft/
Perplexity Peccable: thanks, Path
Piere Rhode: Thanks Path’
Maggie Larimore: thanks Path
Birdie Newcomb: Can Kinect read winks and grins?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: this is about WoW on Kinect: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2010/12/wow-with-kinect-.html
Pathfinder Lester: just a matter of time before that kind of hack is done with platforms like OS, BM, SL
Perplexity Peccable: Any thoughts about Active Worlds? Or is that too last year
Graham Mills: I like the idea of small groups sharing a CAVE-style display with a Kinect
Arielion Clawtooth: @Birdie Not yet but the way it tracks gross body movements it won’t take long
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I have no time for WoW (thank God)
Pathfinder Lester: i haven’t been following anything with Active Worlds in years
Arielion Clawtooth: It’s spooky the way the camera follows you around and projects your silhouette onscreen :o)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wonder what will happen with MMORPGs? WoW’s growth has plateu’ed too
Maggie Larimore: doesn’t interest me WOW
Birdie Newcomb: Hmm (does it work if you’re ugly?)
Arielion Clawtooth: WBirdie Mine hasn’t broken yet!
Graham Mills: Oddly (re winks and grins) there’s a webcam gesture recognition patch for snowglobe
Pathfinder Lester: Iggy, well, a plateau of 12 million monthly paying subscribers is a plateau many folks would kill for. 😉
Maggie Larimore: LOL Path, truly
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Maggie, me too. Building is more fun than killing monsters and I get to do the latter every Thursday for our face-to-face Nerd Night of RPGs
Perplexity Peccable: I’m intrigued by the effectiveness for education of the old style MMORPGs like Gaia
Pathfinder Lester: i think sometimes companies have messed up definitions of success
Maggie Larimore: there you go Ig
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you could teach economics in a world like Eve Online
Pathfinder Lester: success doesn’t always mean you have to grow as fast and big as Farmville
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Path, what do you think will happen to these social games that are easy to learn and play?
Arielion Clawtooth: Farmville ::Shudder::
Pathfinder Lester: unfortunately, that’s the definition of success for many VC-backed companies in silicon valley this past decade.
Maggie Larimore: I wonder how many VC guys actually use the stuff they fund
Pathfinder Lester: Iggy, you mean casual games on platforms like facebook?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, Path
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I admit I’m kinda interested in Farmville b/c of our RL farm 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: i think there will always be a market for them. but most likely not an infinitely expanding market.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I could see players moving to a new one b/c they master the game
Pathfinder Lester: already, companies like Zynga are also realizing that players get tired of them quickly. so companies have to keep churning out new ones.
Graham Mills: I suspect there’s a lot of thought given to user retention
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: like the virtual pets in SL..first chickens, then bunnies, now horsies 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: whether or not that model is sustainable, only time will tell.
Arielion Clawtooth: ::Neigh::Whinny::
Perplexity Peccable: 😉
Birdie Newcomb: One area of growth then, chickens…
Ignatius Onomatopoeia remembers to get out the old P120 and put “Great Naval Battles” back on it 🙂
Arielion Clawtooth: S what’s the connection that would bring folks into our VWs?
Pathfinder Lester: also…comparing virtual worlds like SL or OS to things like casual games such as Farmville is a bit like apples vs oranges.
Arielion Clawtooth: So
Maggie Larimore: but it can give somebody a taste for VWs even so
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: True, Path, except your former employer keeps trying for the FB connection
Maggie Larimore: for the more complex ones I mean
Perplexity Peccable: What is BCI?
Pathfinder Lester: Maggie, true. good point.
Perplexity Peccable: I’ve missed that one
Perplexity Peccable: ah, Treva explained
Pathfinder Lester: casual games like Farmville could be a good “gateway drug” for more immersive virtual worlds. 😉
Perplexity Peccable: not a VW
Perplexity Peccable: an interface
Arielion Clawtooth: I think those games meet (or overdo) the “something to do” question
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: coming up on our last 15 minutes…any more predictions to post?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=48a3d&t=48a3d.40
Perplexity Peccable: brain computer interface
Perplexity Peccable: been tracking that for folks with disabilities
Perplexity Peccable: very powerful
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: How about “What is NOT going to happen?”
Maggie Larimore: BCI for the disabled is fantastic; BCI just for computer interface is a tad Borgesque
Pathfinder Lester: good question Iggy 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: lol
Perplexity Peccable: not so sure
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL will not fold, I predict 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: there is this mysterious emotional tracker that has been creeping in
Piere Rhode: Have many of you seen the TED talk by Jane McGonigal on gamer motivations? It seems to me that there are messages there for what will work in VWs and in particular education inworld
Oronoque Westland: educational discounts will not be re-instated
Perplexity Peccable: I know someone who uses it a lot and is in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: got that link, Piere?
Birdie Newcomb: Avatar seems to be a durable metaphor
Pathfinder Lester: I second Oro’s prediction.
Perplexity Peccable: Yes, Jane’s talk is solid
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: if so, post it
Piere Rhode: Ummm… one moment…
Maggie Larimore: yup Oro
Wrenaria Antiesse: SL customer service will stay just as crappy :p
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I make them live for the transcript
Maggie Larimore: hey sometimes they get it right
Graham Mills: Re BCI, see Mindflex @ http://mashable.com/2010/12/28/fun-learning-gadgets/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I also predict that we’ll see some growth in the SL economy as the RL one picks up
Maggie Larimore: I had a good experience recently
Perplexity Peccable: thanks, Graham
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks for those links
Perplexity Peccable: classic, Pierre
Maggie Larimore: thanks everybody, my browser is groaning under the weight … LOL
Oronoque Westland: there will not be major growth in the middle school presence in SL
Piere Rhode: cheers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I need to use the link on BCI for my new class on the history of cyberspace
Birdie Newcomb: I’m wondering, if and SL were joined, would we just be overrun and destroyed?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no VWs used in the class, however, b/c we are closing Usher in SL 🙁
Maggie Larimore: LOL birdie!
Maggie Larimore: phooey Ig
Birdie Newcomb: Uh, can’t type w-o-w anymore…
Pathfinder Lester: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oh well, we’ll try again in OpenSim in 2011-2012. The simulation is not ready yet 🙂
Arielion Clawtooth: OS is Borg and Sl will be assimilated :o)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Oronoque, I agree with you. I doubt too many middle and high-school teachers have time or willing admins to bring classes into SL
Josain Zsun: I resemble that
Maggie Larimore: LOL Ariel …
Wrenaria Antiesse: hahaha arielion
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My wife’s district has very very slow policies about making exceptions for their filters
Josain Zsun: WB Lexi
Birdie Newcomb: The teen grid idea seems to be morphing, here and in other vws
Graham Mills: I’ve seen examples where SL has been used for teacher training
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and they are well funded but most of the hardware is not high-end
Pathfinder Lester: hmm…i do have a very positive prediction for 2011
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: YAY!
Pathfinder Lester: i’ll enter it in the google moderator thing now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks
Perplexity Peccable: Thanks, Josain
Birdie Newcomb: But I think as long as old people run the show, they won’t grow
Birdie Newcomb: old = 21+
Arielion Clawtooth: Old minded anyway
Maggie Larimore: I’m an old people Birdie; you mean old-minded
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Birdie, it’s often lack of time as much as attitude. We could not get Rezzable to understand that when we tried to link Heritage Key to VA’s standards of learning on Ancient Egypt
Piere Rhode: It’s probably going to be more likely that schools will eventually run their own firewalled VW servers as a way to train students (middle years) how to manage VWs
Maggie Larimore: that makes sense, Pierre
Arielion Clawtooth: Yes but will that cut off the community that makes VWs grow?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Rezzable expected turnaround for a pilot project in a few months. We needed MANY months, if not a year to set it up.
Josain Zsun: For those needing yet another Virtual World Educators discussion group: http://groups.google.com/group/virtual-world-educators?hl=en
Birdie Newcomb: Look at us, we emerge from our private gardens, for at least one hour.
Pathfinder Lester: ack. my prediction is over the character limit. lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: While we wait for Pathfinder to post his prediction, let me remind you about next week
Pathfinder Lester: trying to shorten it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our special first-of-the-month meeting in voice with a panel AJ will quiz:
Birdie Newcomb: next week, next year
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ken Hudson (Kenny Hubble), Chris Collins (Fleep Tuque), Anthony Fontana (AnthonyFontana Chevalier), Jonathon Richter (Wainbrave Bernal), Daniel Livingstone (Buddy Sprocket)
ORACUL-Pure Lady AO (Oracul Animation HUD): Could not find animation ‘dz424-Typing’
Maggie Larimore: nice list guy!
Arielion Clawtooth: But that’s forced. In order for creativity to happen it needs to be more immediate
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: they will prognosticate about the state of VWs today 🙂
Maggie Larimore: at least of two of my neighbors and heros on that list
Graham Mills: I think keeping the information and trust flowing across worlds will be crucial
Maggie Larimore: Fleep and Wainbrave
Birdie Newcomb: All pioneers
Perplexity Peccable: I like that, Graham
Maggie Larimore: true
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: agreeed. I expect more efforts like Josain’s to keep community strong will emerge as some of us disperse
Pathfinder Lester: there, submitted
Arielion Clawtooth: And our own Jokay and Pathfinder
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I spend a lot more time in OS now than in SL
Perplexity Peccable: hooray!
Perplexity Peccable: I have to figure out why I can’t get into OS
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Just accepted the invite, Josain. Thank you
Birdie Newcomb: I like that perspective, Path
Maggie Larimore: I love that prediction; SL as a training ground, launching pad
Zotarah Shepherd: Might be the viewer you’re using Lexi
Pathfinder Lester: the takeaway point of my prediction (just submitted) is that educators will realize they have become not just experts in SL. but rather, experts in virtual world strategies and tactics *in general*
Perplexity Peccable: SL2, Zo
Maggie Larimore: Zotarah, didn’t see you there, hello!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here’s the post by Path: “As educators explore the wider range of virtual world options beyond SL, they will realize they have gained a great deal of wisdom and critical competency in virtual worlds in general during their tenure in SL.”
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Maggie!
Birdie Newcomb: Hi Zo
Pathfinder Lester: and that kind of wisdom is eminently portable. and priceless. and lasts forever. 🙂
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Birdie
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ooooh you said “tenure”
Zotarah Shepherd: I snuck in
Maggie Larimore: great prediction Path
Arielion Clawtooth: Like graduation from high school
Birdie Newcomb: The wisdome, but not the in ventory8=(
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that’s going to be a sticking point for some colleagues. How can a tenure-and-promotion committee evaluate this work?
Perplexity Peccable: teh skills are transferrable, even if inventory isn’t
Maggie Larimore: that’s why I’m learning to build LOL
Maggie Larimore: portability ..
Pathfinder Lester: Perplexity, precisely!
Piere Rhode: I wonder if the planners in Sl have thought of promoting secure Sl servers specifically for schools to use (firewalled) for free as a way of “branding” their product?
Dabici Straulino: A great deal of experience indeed but for what is relevant to education, what about transferring this to corporate
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Maggie’s right. I knocked out Usher 2.0 in about 1/5 the time the first SL build took.
Maggie Larimore: so glad to hear that Ig, just in case I have to move my school someday
Arielion Clawtooth: @Iggy Is that because you had the experience or the tools were easier?
Pathfinder Lester: Dabici, i think corporate use of VWs is tightly coupled to education. corporate learning, corporate training, etc. i think those are the best applications of virtual worlds for companies.
Graham Mills: “secure servers” should like the Enterprise edition
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Heya Zo! the chat window blocks who is here now!
Perplexity Peccable: that’s what U admin would hear
Perplexity Peccable: enterprise
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Iggy!
Piere Rhode: Enterprise as in incredibly bloody expensive
Graham Mills: and ill-fated
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We are down to the last 5 minutes
Birdie Newcomb: So do we feel good about the future?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: any questions or final visions for 2011?
Maggie Larimore: yes yay birdie
Pathfinder Lester: i think the future is very good for educators and virtual worlds
Graham Mills: I want to see more flexibility in terms of delivery — better mobile options
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Birdie, I feel very good about the future of VWs.
Arielion Clawtooth: There are more options than ever and options are always good
Pathfinder Lester nods emphatically at Arielion
Dabici Straulino: Yes and no. I do believe in the importance of the rich immersive envronment that SL and likes offer but more corporate environment turns to vast partc or teleplace which they more corporate like, too me more limited
Birdie Newcomb: The exploring of grids does feel a bit like my first days in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I suspect, Graham, that a firm like Abranimations that has branched out to InWorldz will soon be offering goodies at more grids
Oronoque Westland: I think for those educators interested in virtual worlds the future (outside of SL) is many times more affordable
Perplexity Peccable: I am hearing from young folk (teens) that they find the VW interface a bit … old fashioned
Graham Mills: um, i meant tablet and iPad rather than inventory but that’s coming too
Perplexity Peccable: they are looking for more augmented reality
Maggie Larimore: that’s why we need that teleporting; doing the rounds of your builds could get pretty interesting with builds on lots of sims
Perplexity Peccable: merger of VW and RL
Maggie Larimore: lots of grids I meant
Birdie Newcomb: or browser-friendly
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Perlexity, can that be done in a world like SL?
Arielion Clawtooth: Surprised no one mentioned that yet. yes, Ipad friendly b the end of the year
Ignatius Onomatopoeia envisions an avatar rezzing at a RL meeting
Zotarah Shepherd: I like the idea of independent creator websites offering goods to OS that do not have an economy.
Graham Mills: Path is doing a great job with the HGAC on getting avatars to see more grids
Perplexity Peccable: I don’t know
Pathfinder Lester: Thanks Graham
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let’s put in the HGAC link while we are at it 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: but I am hearing that this is what the kids are looking for
Zotarah Shepherd: I so wish I had time to visit more grids
Pathfinder Lester: http://becunningandfulloftricks.com/hypergrid-adventurers-club/
Perplexity Peccable: 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: by “this” you mean augmented reality, Perplexity?
Perplexity Peccable: Path, I’m still trying
Dabici Straulino: when will we see a universal avatar, with a passport to multiple worlds
Perplexity Peccable: Jokay suggested making an alt
Perplexity Peccable: yes, Iggy
Perplexity Peccable: Ar/RL blend
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Dabici, that’s my dream…with inventory of course 🙂
Perplexity Peccable: VW/RL blend via AR
Graham Mills is reading Rainbows End atm — all v relevant
Dabici Straulino: lets dream
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, we are at the end of our hour!
Pathfinder Lester: Perplexity, oooh yes, that’s my prediction. but not for 2011. rather, for 2015 😉
Piere Rhode: great chat!
Perplexity Peccable: good 🙂
Birdie Newcomb: At least a wardrobe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I will box up the transcript and post it soon. If you have photos, post them please to
Perplexity Peccable: on the radar 🙂
Arielion Clawtooth: thanks Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Koinup or Flickr groups
Dabici Straulino: great chat, ty, happy new year to all
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks to all of you! I hope you have safe and pleasant New Years!
Birdie Newcomb: Happy New Year all.
Arielion Clawtooth: Happy new year everyone!
Piere Rhode: Bye all.
Graham Mills: thx everyone — Happy New Year!!
Zotarah Shepherd: Happy New Year VWERers
Perplexity Peccable: Happy New Year!~
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: on we go to 2011…it’s been a good year for VWER
Oronoque Westland: Peaceful New Year to all
Pathfinder Lester: take care, everyone. good conversation. 🙂
Wrenaria Antiesse: happy new year 🙂
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: time to eat that leftover turkey stew 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: yum!
Pathfinder Lester: see ya, folks.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good night all
Perplexity Peccable: gumbo 🙂