VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable August 11, 2011
Topic:”Educator as Avatar – The New Professional”
Olivia Hotshot: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting. We meet here each week at 2:30 pm SLT for an hour.
Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Olivia Hotshot: Today’s meeting, “Educator as Avatar – The New Professional” will be in TEXT CHAT only.
Claudia13 Rossini: only if you promise to get me the LM for that t-shirt i love
Olivia Hotshot: The document we will use can be found at: VW Viewer Comparisons http://bit.ly/pRnBTE
Olivia Hotshot: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings.
Olivia Hotshot: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http//www.vwer.org
Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Olivia Hotshot: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
Olivia Hotshot: I’m Olivia, today’s moderator for this group. If you’ve not seen Iggy’s transcripts, you should check them out – they are a great information asset.
Olivia Hotshot: Now then, it’s time to get started. please introduce yourself to the group. I am Ann Steckel, a techie and educator from Cal State University, Chico.
Ellie Brewster: Sharon Collingwood, Women’s Studies, The Ohio State University
Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia, builder, for the Univ of Penn..and others
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, Office of Ed Tech, Georgia Gwinnett College
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Glasgow Caledonian University , Nurse lecturer, RN
(cyber.placebo): Edith Paillat Victoria uni of Wellington NZ, languages
Shanti Suntzu: Olivia the URL you gave requires a CHICO login?
Decka Mah: Lindy Orwin, University of New England Australia working remotely as virtual worlds project manager from Seattle area.
Liana Hubbenfluff: I am a researcher in the field of biomimicry
Sicily Zapatero: Anna Gadler Pratt ~ Elementary School Educator, NY
Buffy Beale: Buffy Bye, Bridges for Women Tech Advisor in Victoria BC Canada and the Nonprofit Commons in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me is Joe Essid, University of Richmond Writing Center. Running Nevermore, a simulation based on Poe’s works, in Jokaydia Grid for a class this fall.
Kali Pizzaro: come on in Gillies
Shanti Suntzu: This one: http://bit.ly/pRnBTE
Gilles Kuhn: hello trying
Olivia Hotshot: Shanti – please check IMs
Sicily Zapatero: I’m getting a log in page with that link.
Olivia Hotshot: OK folks, last call for anyone else to do introductions
Olivia Hotshot: anyone else?
Kali Pizzaro: 21 on the sim for the transcript
Olivia Hotshot: would ask that all off topic questions wait til the end of the meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: not bad for back-to-school time 🙂
Gilles Kuhn: ok i am an epistemologist and vice director of the science circle which is a non profit organising academic education in VR
Olivia Hotshot: now then, let me set the stage before we dive in.
Olivia Hotshot: It seems we all have opinions about how educators should dress or act when in virtual worlds. However, there is definitiely not a consensus.
Olivia Hotshot: We have had guest speakers who have dressed in suits, submarine outfits, aliens, dreadlocks, etc
Olivia Hotshot: Teachers come in all shapes and sizes….
Marc Rexen: /me, wearing a suit, smiles to the wolf(?) next to him. 🙂
Gilles Kuhn: Hoooooowls!!
Olivia Hotshot: So today, i woul dlike to have a conversation – based on some information by 2 scholars and in the book Total Engagement.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Some of us like hats we might not wear in a classroom or on campus…
Olivia Hotshot: The notecard was passed out in group and is in the box on the table, however i will paste the sections in chat for those who do not have it handy.
Olivia Hotshot: So lets start with the first – and please hold all comments til it is fully posted
(cyber.placebo): th e box can’t be touched 🙂
Liana Hubbenfluff: wear your tag Ellie?
Olivia Hotshot: there
Ellie Brewster: sorry
Second Life: Items successfully shared.
Olivia Hotshot: according to the 2 scholars in the book:
Olivia Hotshot: Avatars that look like the people with whom they’re interacting are the most persuasive.
– When avatars look like a real person who is driving the avatar with which it is interacting, that person may like the avatar more, remember more about it, be more likely to do embarrassing things in front of the avatar , and think the avatar is better looking. Build avatars at work that look like the people whom the avatars are meant to impress. Interestingly the research shows carrying it to an extreme.
Olivia Hotshot: Do we agree with this? What do we think of the statements?
Marc Rexen: I agree.
Gilles Kuhn: i disagree
Liana Hubbenfluff: Well depends I think
Liana Hubbenfluff: I work with people who mimic nature and organisms
Olivia Hotshot: /me listens
Liana Hubbenfluff: hence the sea dragon
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t.who zooms in on av’s to take that close a look.we rarely focus on av faces
Obsequious Robonaught: i disagree with that statement
Sicily Zapatero: Agree
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For new students in SL, I agree, and for demos to colleagues, absolutely
Wrenaria Antiesse: …I don’t know about that bit about being more memorable
Marc Rexen: It does depend on venue…suits work for formalish places, but when you’re at a beach party, board shorts are better.
Wrenaria Antiesse: Claudia – I zoom in on av’s all the time
Ellie Brewster: dont understand the “embarrassing things” part
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone need the note, just IM me
Obsequious Robonaught: unique avatars or even THEMED avatars have a chance at better engagement
Marc Rexen: I like the word Themed.
Claudia13 Rossini: i can’t be bothered. i’m listening to what they say.reading chat text
Olivia Hotshot: whispers: ellie, the “there” was for you… i think you should have gotten it.
(cyber.placebo): for languages and intercultural studies
Ellie Brewster: got it, thanks!
Wrenaria Antiesse: plus what if they are wearing somethign cute I want to find myself? lol
Second Life: Items successfully shared.
Wrenaria Antiesse: hence, zoom
Marc Rexen: What is it, people make their initial impression of you in 2 seconds?
Gilles Kuhn: as i already tried to say (chat lag) a teacher impress by his knowledge but too by his personality an avi can pass that too
(cyber.placebo): it is good to represent the language we teach or learn, more to to the point if any specific sim has dress code rule
(cyber.placebo): it help for situated experiential learning
Gilles Kuhn: so original avi can be a manner to show the unique personal touch of a teacher
Gilles Kuhn: too you can use different avie to illustrate different points
“removes potential inhibitions” and “removes how you are dressed” from a point of overt or covert discussion or contemplation.
(cyber.placebo): agree with Gilles
Ellie Brewster: Sometimes she disappears
Olivia Hotshot: embarrassing in that – i can act silly in front of a peer versus someone i am trying to impress?
“professorial” or they won’t take you seriously IRL, either 🙁
(cyber.placebo): I believe it also depends on the students experience of SL
Obsequious Robonaught: when teaching history, couldn’t it be appropriate to present yourself from the era?
Obsequious Robonaught: you don’t have to be ridiculous
(cyber.placebo): with noobs it is better to start off with a conventional representation of the self
Wrenaria Antiesse: audience is certainly a factor in avatar appearance
Gilles Kuhn: ignatius you can be terrifying in swimsuit or less when explaining Schršdinger equation …. always….
Liana Hubbenfluff: I think culture has a lot to do with it; some cultures accept avatars easily
Decka Mah: Ig have you ever tried having the conversation about appearance?
(cyber.placebo): until they reach enough experience of the environment to overcome the prejudices of appearance
Ellie Brewster: Is that the damnn cat thing again? Schrodinger? Is the cat dead or not?
Claudia13 Rossini: (SchršdingerÕs cat? wear a cat outfit?)
Wrenaria Antiesse: yes Ellie
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Giles, true, but you’d get fired on my campus 🙂
(cyber.placebo): for intercultural studies, avatar appearnce is a fabulous asset
Obsequious Robonaught: perfect answer wrenaria
Marc Rexen: The Texas history sim was presented “in costume” for one event…it did help.
Gilles Kuhn: (more a killing box outfit a pratchett luggage for example 😉 )
Olivia Hotshot: a question though – if someone shows up in a noob avatar are they regarded as being less proficient in VW skills? or are they treated as if they probably have no clue?
Wrenaria Antiesse: Ellie: lol never visit my SL apartment then. I have like 20
Wrenaria Antiesse: :p
Ellie Brewster: 😉
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Olivia, I think so – I think people assume they are noobs.
Wrenaria Antiesse: Olivia – I would say yes
Liana Hubbenfluff: I would suggest that it’s important to at least consider the pros and cons
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I found that in time, students in SL began to dress and act less conventionally, but at first they wanted “authenticity,” because nearly 100% of them dislike avatars and gaming and prefer RL identies from social networking
Gilles Kuhn: ignatius you need to storm rectoral building and throw a party in with beer and lot of music (lock the academic council inside is too an asset)
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Olivia.if they look like a noob i wonder if they are really interested in VW’s
Sicily Zapatero: Well…even using the word “noob” affirms that
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Whether they are helpful or rude depends on the oldbie!
Olivia Hotshot: do noob avatars impress people enough to think they are proficient and professional?
Liana Hubbenfluff: noob avatars…depends if you are a noob or not
Claudia13 Rossini: no
Kali Pizzaro: i am not sure i would know what a noob looks like now
Ellie Brewster: I gave a seminar to a bunch of university women recently – one of whom was so obsessed with how she looked she couldn’t participate. Appearance is powerful
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me hides my RL cats from Ellie 🙂
Claudia13 Rossini: i do.i meet with lots of then at Penn
Obsequious Robonaught: one of the default AVs you get when first creating your account.
Lyr Lobo: /me grins and waves
Decka Mah: @Ellie we have that issue especially with the Japanese students and solved it by having generic class avatars to “borrow” for the first session
Obsequious Robonaught: No Animation Over-ride, prim hair, etc.
Claudia13 Rossini: steroid induced males
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m so worried about first impressions with colleagues and new SL students that I’d not even wear this shirt with Uncle Gabby–he’s drinking and driving you know.
Liana Hubbenfluff: Looking like a noob is not very impressive
Kali Pizzaro: lol i know what they are but they are i have not created any recently
Sicily Zapatero: I think it’s great that people hook into caring about their avatar identity right off! Don’t knock it!
Ellie Brewster: YI did provide them with avatars – but the look wasn’t “her.”
Liana Hubbenfluff: Looking creative is impressive
Liana Hubbenfluff: do I not impress?
Liana Hubbenfluff: lol
Marc Rexen: It’s also important to consider how you, the instructor, will react to “generic default” avatars as well.
Lyr Lobo: /me grins
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Definitely!
Olivia Hotshot: OK FOLKS… next point – which Liana’s comment nicely introduces:
Decka Mah: Liana the new noob avatars are quite flash
Lyr Lobo: i often wear all black with a black skirt…. but find that i’m teaching graphics design and needed to kick it up a notch
Ellie Brewster: @Sicily – I’m not knocking it, I love it. I tried to point out to her that it showed how powerful the programme was for her
Obsequious Robonaught: without a proper AV, you don’t present yourself as being up on the technology.
Lyr Lobo: testing out skins as we speak *laughs*
Liana Hubbenfluff: Decka: ah right!
Olivia Hotshot: It’s good for the avatar to look like the “in group”.
– Maximizing the entertainment value of avatars might suggest that you create avatars noticeably different from the group. Although that will indeed get you noticed, it may not be the best way to winning friends. People show preferential treatment for “in group” avatars; that is, avatars that have the same gender or race as the rest of the group. Avatar similarity enables people to work together better over an extended period. So beware gratuitous differentiation; you’ll get noticed, but possibly to the disadvantage of group cohesion.
Sicily Zapatero: /me nods in agreement with Ellie
Gilles Kuhn: i remember a seminar one of the invited came nude (we speak sl) one was shocked and made a scandal i expulsed the shocked one as voxels are not offensive
Olivia Hotshot: < please read above and comment >
Lyr Lobo: i used to think that appearance was less important..until I realized that identity really matters when it comes to learning…. as does sitting and being comfortable
Gilles Kuhn: seminar one of the*
Ellie Brewster: @Lyr – I wear black on the first class, too. It helps the students find me.
Olivia Hotshot: QUOTEIS ABOVE ^
Kali Pizzaro: Yes but not the same – lots of my students want to change straight away as they picked the same default avatar
Obsequious Robonaught: i agree with that statement – your AV should not be “deceptive”
Zotarah Shepherd: If I see a default avatar I check their rez date. If they are new I offer to help them. If they are old I ask if they are inworld much. If I see them week after week with no change I figure they are defiant and do not really care or understand how Appearance is important and makes a statement of self expression. I would certainly tell students this.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think for US Millennials it’s spot-on, Olivia. My students obsess about not sticking out IRL. After a few months, the first-years conform to the Abercrombie & Fitch / J. Crew norm. I don’t think they’d be different in SL
Claudia13 Rossini: shouldn’t VW’s be a place to dissolve and minimise how different we all look. instead of encouraging prejudices about size & skin color?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I’m not slamming them. In the early 80s my friends and I all looked like Seattle Grungers
Zotarah Shepherd: Teens are polishing their identity and experimenting.
Kali Pizzaro: hi pata
Kali Pizzaro: have a sear
Kali Pizzaro: seat
Ellie Brewster: For women’s studies, it provides us with an opportunity for us to get the student to ask themselves questions on how they feel about body image, race, gender
Sicily Zapatero: One can still create their own Branding, which is particular to their identity without appearing totally different than the group.
Gilles Kuhn: VR realities gave us a splendid media to express ourselves in a totally free way in our appearance why not use it
Decka Mah: cultural norms can carry across digital boundaries
patapoufa: helllo thanks!
Marc Rexen: I find meeting a group of folks wearing a suit, maybe a couple of times, set the tone that lets you sneak back as you go forward.
Obsequious Robonaught: I’m talking more about gender, rather than ethnicity.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Claudia, body-type and species, my 2009 class found, were more the subject of discrimination than race. Black avatars did not get dissed; Furries and overweight avatars did.
Shanti Suntzu: I agree Gilles
Gilles Kuhn: and i mean individually groups are restrictive which is not a good thing
Lyr Lobo: I do not think of it as prejudices but as preferences. How I feel when I am another race, organism, gender or style *smiles* It is important for everyone to feel comfortable….
Ellie Brewster: And then there are those folks who prefer their wheelchairs…
Marc Rexen: New residents usually don’t recognize, or care, but later on, they do know what it costs in “time and Lindens” to create “the look.”
Claudia13 Rossini: only because it’s not PC to pick on blacks these days.i remember when that was OK
Kali Pizzaro: i give them all free clothes
Kali Pizzaro: which they appreciate
Kali Pizzaro: and use
Gilles Kuhn: Lyr that is dangerous as some people will try to impose restriction based on their prejudice
Sicily Zapatero: Oh, I think new residents do notice rather quickly.
Olivia Hotshot: 30 people on the sim for the transcript
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Giles, while I agree with you, if you are showing the technology to non SLers, you’ll alienate them unless you dress for success. As a RL prof, I have to “look serious,” like it or not
Kali Pizzaro: agree iggy
Kali Pizzaro: maybe it depends what you are teaching
Wrenaria Antiesse: audience matters
Lyr Lobo: Hmm, I rarely look real life professional
Lyr Lobo: am teaching my 24th university class in here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: believe me, I’d rather wear shorts, a punk-rock T, and a baseball cap to work, as I do in the summer 🙂
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Iggy. i have ‘professional’ clothes when doing demos et al on Penn
Liana Hubbenfluff: wow Lyr
Lyr Lobo: and have given 93 conference presentations in 5 years…so far, it has been very successful
Decka Mah: I think discussing the look of the avatar and what you might look like and when for various purposes IS part of introducing people to SL
Gilles Kuhn: Ignatius i remember a bishop in my uni who dressed seriously and chain smoked cigars during all exams ….
Olivia Hotshot: in Cali the idea of serious is a Hawaiian shirt, jeans and flip flops for me – at least here
Olivia Hotshot: men*
Lyr Lobo: designed two doctoral degree programs that center on vws, social media, augmented reality and cloud computing….
Lyr Lobo: /me smiles with Liana and listens
Kali Pizzaro: in nursing it tend to be smart or smart casual
Lyr Lobo: this is my normal class look
Kali Pizzaro: in rl
Kali Pizzaro: in sl my students wore what they wanted but the pre-licence wore uniforms
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia, Richmond is like the anti-California. I keep tweed jackets and Brooks Bro. shirts (and very cool ties) in my office for work
Gilles Kuhn: and ignatius you will be surprised but even if i am the more liberal of all i personally wear always suits when in academic real setting but its due i cannot transform in werewolf apart in full moon night 😉
Kali Pizzaro: RNs
Kali Pizzaro: lol Gilles
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, my one BB blazer that i still have stays in the closet. i’ll send it east for you.
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Igg. like me in r/l. expensive but fancy flats
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL @Giles…and Olivia, will it fit?
Ellie Brewster: I think what’s really important is to get our students to see avatars as a coded identity.
Olivia Hotshot: well maybe not Iggy, but Nan may want it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 🙂
Liana Hubbenfluff: getting back to the book: the authors researched everything yes?
Sicily Zapatero: If appearance didn’t create an impact , no one would bother to design the avatar.
Lyr Lobo: on the teen grid, the teens conducted identity studies that were most eluminating…I volunteered with Peggy Sheehy and it was fascinating to see how they expressed themselves….as their ideal gender, opposite gender, and real life self
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Olivia Hotshot: You’d have to ask them that question Liana
Liana Hubbenfluff: nice Lyr
Liana Hubbenfluff: I’d have to see their citations! hahaha
Lyr Lobo: oh the discussions they had *grins* when they switched genders
Liana Hubbenfluff: I’m a journal fiend
Lyr Lobo: /me chuckles
Olivia Hotshot: OK, ADDING A NEW QUOTE FOLKS – (in case the pot was not stirred enough)
Olivia Hotshot: Realism is not necessary to be influential.
– There is an assumption that photorealism will make avatars more influential. It’s true in general that better pictures will be taken more seriously, but it isn’t necessary that avatars have your photo on their face to be influential. One study showed that the more realistic an avatar looked (photorealistic vs cartoonlike), the less likely it was that people were willing to disclose personal information to the avatar when they first met. Beware of mismatches between the realism of an avatar’s appearance and the realism of its behavior. For example, a photorealistic avatar that moves awkwardly.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m trying to recall how newcomers looked when Tom Boellstorff interviewed them for his book
Obsequious Robonaught: It’s fine to dress “professional” for VW teaching, but i think you’re missing an opportunity to be more engaging through your online presence.
Lyr Lobo: /me nods at Obsequious
Ellie Brewster: Uncanny valley vs. THE WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF
Zotarah Shepherd: Good AOs are essential
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia i wonder if anonymity is important there
Kali Pizzaro: oh spelling
Claudia13 Rossini: naw.i never use AO’s.except a walk
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ob, I agree. But not at first, when the kids are freaked otu by the experience. Ours is a decidedly non-gamer, careerist campus.
Lyr Lobo: /me grins at Kali’s wonderful shirt
Obsequious Robonaught: yes, the close to that uncanny valley – the more “human” we all behave.
Kali Pizzaro: i don’t think i want folks to see my real face until i get to know them
Liana Hubbenfluff: I’m in SL almost daily on a sim where we play a game; avatars and clothing really changes the influence of the person
Ellie Brewster: I don’t understand people who find photorealism important
Olivia Hotshot: Kali – i thought the same – the closer the avatar looks to a real person, or a person the other person may know – then the less they want to tell
Obsequious Robonaught: *closer
Lyr Lobo: we do games and simulations too, Liana
Liana Hubbenfluff: the “boss” is not hugged by the members; whereas the fun woman is
Liana Hubbenfluff: it changes behavior!!
Buffy Beale: Me too Olivia and Kali
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As for Olivia’s latest quotation, yes, too photorealistic and you hit the “Uncanny Valley” effect
Lyr Lobo: hostage rescue games for shared leadership studies, etc
Marc Rexen: …and in my best Southpark voice, dogs are the winners.
Lyr Lobo: /me chuckles with Marc
Marc Rexen: I’ve seen folks tell dogs stuff they would never tell even their closest friends.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: woop
Gilles Kuhn: @olivia now i understand why i seems to look a psychotherapist here….
Lyr Lobo: /me grins at Buffy
Olivia Hotshot: hehe Giles =)
Lyr Lobo: aww, Gilles *grins*
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Uncanny Valley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
Ellie Brewster: I had a student who was a pre-med. She wore a black ballgown with diamonds. Always. Talk about establishing your class. And everybody knew it, too.
Lyr Lobo: Hehe Ellie…yes
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Ellie
Olivia Hotshot: Ellie, was she liked or disliked or people were neutral?
Ellie Brewster: People were intimidated.
Marc Rexen: Yeah, when I show up in an expensive tux, folks do treat me differently.
Gilles Kuhn: Ellie i hope she wore that too in rl at least in some occasions?
Liana Hubbenfluff: our “boss” is really respected
Claudia13 Rossini: hell, i’d wear nothing but haute couture in here, but no one makes it
Olivia Hotshot: expensive tux = $2000 Lindens = $8.34
Ellie Brewster: The funny thing is that I never see my students to the final exam. Then, all these good friends suddenly become strangers.
Olivia Hotshot: inexpensive tux = free at the Chico Campus
Lyr Lobo: hehe
Marc Rexen: With shoes and hair…about right. 🙂
Gilles Kuhn: lol olivia i can gave you that here for free
Olivia Hotshot: I have one Giles, but thanks
Marc Rexen: Skins a different matter. 🙂
Liana Hubbenfluff: So clothing and avatar DO matter
Gilles Kuhn: i mean Six boxes full of them
Marc Rexen: It is what helped make me where I hang out.
Lyr Lobo: It is amazing how many different looks we have today in the library..the diversity is quite rich… for self expression
Claudia13 Rossini: Skin..very important! and good hair
Marc Rexen: I’m always considered “the snappy dresser.”
Gilles Kuhn: dont forget the theets Claudia
Lyr Lobo: the leather boots are better than my old store bought ones *grins*
Olivia Hotshot: /me takes note about who among us is a snappy dresser
Claudia13 Rossini: theets?
Ellie Brewster: Also, it’s good to remember that male skins without facial hair can be used for females.
Gilles Kuhn: ouch olivia then one sec
Lyr Lobo: this t shirt is hand made…as are my pants *grins*
Liana Hubbenfluff: ^^ Marc
Claudia13 Rossini: in r/l.i wear eskandar cashmere.about $1500 a sweater
Olivia Hotshot: Giles, everyone knows i rarely change my clothing. so it was a joke… you’ll see me in this shirt til i make a new one
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s funny….for faculty, if you dress too “snappy” you are considered a lightweight. So frumpy formal is a good bet. But I put on great shoes and ties, anyhow.
Buffy Beale: Personally I wonder why do we have to dress like real life at all, why not be green or wear wings instead of trying to look like a Barbie or Ken
Olivia Hotshot: frumpy formal!!!!!! The new black!! Love it
Wrenaria Antiesse: /me doesn’t want to think about how much she spend on virtual clothes….. *blushes*
Lyr Lobo: I dunno..it is possible, Ignatius… my school is more business casual khakis….but I am most often in black…in every reality….and … unsual
Marc Rexen: Best coder I knew of liked purple hair.
Kali Pizzaro: interestingly i had some folk volunteer to let students take their health history – i asked them later if they changed their avatar and the said no – however none looked the same as their rez day
Lyr Lobo: /me grins at Marc
Lyr Lobo: yes
Gilles Kuhn: Good heaven ignatius its a uni or a fashion school your ? 😉
Ellie Brewster: For me, the important thing about dress is to be identified by the students. Especially at the beginning they can get confused.
Liana Hubbenfluff: Buffy: I’m with you
Olivia Hotshot: NEW QUOTE FOLKS – (going to get fast and furious now)
Marc Rexen: Director would always grimace as we went to conference, but she was so good, nobody cared.
Lyr Lobo: perhaps that is a factor…how well we are taken as professionals…prior to the virtual world may lend itself to our VW personaes
Olivia Hotshot: Be Tall and Good Looking
– Sizes, shapes and faces do matter. There is a well-tested result in psychology ( e.g., tall and attractive people generally do better in political elections – than less striking people). The same advantage accrues to virtual people, except that you can far more easily make the desired changes. People appear to behave in ways consistent with how their avatar looks. For example, if one is using a taller avatar, one will more likely behave confidently. Attractive avatars are more likely to be social.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Gilles…very fashion conscious students. We were voted “best looking student body” a few years back.
Claudia13 Rossini: Iggy. keep with the fancy ties. it shows good style and class
Claudia13 Rossini: oh i hate that tall thing. it’s like an arms race in here
Marc Rexen: It is why my AV is 100 height…it does not work as well for females.
Liana Hubbenfluff: Olivia…true about the tall
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Claudia, I buy handmade silk ones that an artist batiks…they are lovely
Camie Rembrandt: Yes, the Proteus Effect
Olivia Hotshot: /me nods to Camie
Claudia13 Rossini: oh Iggy. i’d love to see them!
Sicily Zapatero: Studies show that taller avatars command greater respect
Liana Hubbenfluff: Once someone said to me. Oh I thought you’d be taller in RL!
Ellie Brewster: I hate being short in RL
Obsequious Robonaught: that is less effective when everyone can max out their height and wear gorgeous skins.
Liana Hubbenfluff: me too Ellie
Sicily Zapatero: But that’s not why Sicily is tall. I’m short in RL!
Shanti Suntzu: Anyone ever teach as a tiny?
Lyr Lobo: /me grins at all the colorful and distinctive avatars… looking the richnes of our creative pallette
Olivia Hotshot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_effect
Claudia13 Rossini: fine. but then in a few years all the av’s will be 20 feet tall
Ellie Brewster: They won’t listen to you if you teach as a tiny.
Liana Hubbenfluff: hm there’s a good question Shanti
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): A lot of clothes don’t fit shorter avs. I used to be shorter but kept having to mod clothes.
Obsequious Robonaught: that’s when personality must be your advantage.
Decka Mah: It works really well in World of Warcraft for getting help. I never wore my best armour when I needed help I wore what would get me the most help. LOL
Marc Rexen: I do suspect you are correct Ellie.
Kali Pizzaro: lol Decka
Gilles Kuhn: Ellie my most impressive professor was a small discrete man who wear cheap discreet suits
Marc Rexen: The tiny’s are often ignored, both in voice and chat in free discussion.
Wrenaria Antiesse: haha Decka
Bedordia Bedrosian: WHAT?!!!
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): I do as a very short kitty,it count and to teacher not to students
Claudia13 Rossini: i like the tiny’s. i always want to cuddle them
Obsequious Robonaught: not my tiny (a knife-wielding, cigar-smoking duck with a mohawk)
Liana Hubbenfluff: Bedordia: lol!
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Olivia Hotshot: psssst we do have a tiny here with us… waits to see what Bedordia has to say
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Obs
Marc Rexen: It is not good or bad or mean or anything, but it is what I see when folks get together for free discussion.
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): (sorry i can talk here yes?))
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: please do, Amparo
Kali Pizzaro: sure
Gilles Kuhn: @ignatius now i can teach in your uni? 😉
Lyr Lobo: oh yes, Amparo *smiles*
Claudia13 Rossini: funny. we have some at the Junkyard Blues club, they are treated like anyone else
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You are hired, Giles 🙂
Marc Rexen: Are you tall enough to talk Amparo?
Lyr Lobo: that is what is so lovely about virtual worlds…we are all equally important and our voices can be heard…
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): wel i have something to say, i teach in Sl just to teachers ans men teachers act better if we are ugly short unnice girls
Olivia Hotshot: /me waves over to RK!! LTNS
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): and*
Lyr Lobo: /me elbows Marc and grins
“age and stature.”
(cyber.placebo): aww amparo interesting….
Olivia Hotshot: Do any of you use LOOK AT or POINT AT?
Lyr Lobo: Interesting Amparo
Claudia13 Rossini: no
(cyber.placebo): yes Olivia on Phoenix
Lyr Lobo: on rare occasions, yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it is. Of course, female avatars often seem to outnumber the males here
Marc Rexen: I’d tend to agree with that Amparo…I see the overweight females doing better in discussions than the “knockout hookers.”
Claudia13 Rossini: am too busy typing as a rule
Olivia Hotshot: Advanced/character/show look ar (or point at)
Lyr Lobo: Olivia…but I rarely point in real life…was raised not to do it
Kali Pizzaro: no
Zotarah Shepherd: Nope
Lyr Lobo: so mostly…only demo the gestures *grins*
Olivia Hotshot: well you might want to in the future and here is why NEW QUOTE:
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): they pay more attention if i am a cat or whatever than a nice girl
Sicily Zapatero: /me sits on her hands as she talks with them all the time
Olivia Hotshot: It matters where you look.
– When you control an avatar, you get to decide the direction it faces and even where it looks. Eye gaze is one of the most important determinants of the quality of interpersonal communications, and this is also true virtually. Avatars that don’t look at strangers when they advance are more likely to encourage other avatars to stand closer. Avatars that maintain mutual gaze are more persuasive than ones that don’t. When collaborators use avatars that allow for head movements and mutual gaze, they do better on tasks and like each other more than when avatars don’t perform these realistic behaviors
Claudia13 Rossini: that’s because (i read somewhere) there are more females using VW’s then males
Lyr Lobo: oh yes, but I alt click the avvvie I am talking to and focus on them
Gilles Kuhn: Good lord that quote is a joke ?
Lyr Lobo: so pointing at them is better eh?
Marc Rexen: “Business professional” females command significant respect here.
Kali Pizzaro: i walk up and stand near
Olivia Hotshot: not a joke and i totally agree
Sicily Zapatero: Yes, I tend to focus and zoom as well. In this way, I look at the person
Obsequious Robonaught: always cam the person’s head you are speaking with, when in an individual setting.
Lyr Lobo: yes
Lyr Lobo: /me smiles at Kali
Gilles Kuhn: how the hell can you stare with an avie ?
Lyr Lobo: oh it is easy
Olivia Hotshot: i have tried to work with educators who have no motion control – they stand facing into a corner of a room or into a wall and i tell you it IRKS th eheck out of me cause i dont feel like they are listening to me
Sicily Zapatero: /me smiles at Giles. “With practice”
Lyr Lobo: you get locked on their face
Marc Rexen: It is, and I tend to agree.
Obsequious Robonaught: some AOs don’t really allow it, though.
Lyr Lobo: and continue to talk, gesture, move nearer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I can never keep Iggy’s darn head still. It’s like he’s got a pipe-cleaner for a neck. So I don’t know, Olivia.
Gilles Kuhn: oh but thats not staring sorry
Marc Rexen: The coders did do a good job making close-in avatars “aware” of each other.
Claudia13 Rossini: oh that would drive me nuts Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: me too Claudia
Lyr Lobo: /me grins with Claudia13
Decka Mah: vOICE CHAT HAS MADE DOING THIS EASIER AS YOUR HANDS AREN’T TIED UP TALKING
Kali Pizzaro: maybe i do i tend to put my mouse pointer over the avatar is that another way of doing it?
Kali Pizzaro: does that make you look at them
Kali Pizzaro: the avatar
Kali Pizzaro: ??
Marc Rexen: Yes.
Olivia Hotshot: no Kali, that is correct
Kali Pizzaro: ah ok i do then lol
Decka Mah: EEEP sorry for the saps
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): use to walk directly to the avatar I am taliking to and it works
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it helps, Kali, but the head still lolls around. Fixing that would help with interpersonal contact here
Wrenaria Antiesse: AOs make it hard to direct attention
Marc Rexen: AO’s can override, but I know just where a new resident is looking…can even guess the menu option he’s staring at.
Olivia Hotshot: but the two commands found in the advanced menu will show it in the viewer – who people are looking at and who is looking at them
Lyr Lobo: ahh if you use stances, yes
Lyr Lobo: i ripped mine out
“eyes” that disapear altogether
(cyber.placebo): how do you control show look at on firestorm?
Kali Pizzaro: ah that might be useful when I interview for my study
Lyr Lobo: in fact, only use an AO for dancing….the other is just a walk when i get tired of hopping
Kali Pizzaro: might pick your brain Olivia
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Olivia. i can see them moving their mouse to open something on the task bars
Olivia Hotshot: advanced menu/character/show look at / show point at
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: not a clue, Cybere. I’m still learning the viewer
Marc Rexen: I don’t like the named show and look pointers…causes more issues than it resolves.
Kali Pizzaro: thanks
Obsequious Robonaught: this is all fine AV etiquette, but how does it apply to a virtual classroom environment?
Buffy Beale: same with me Lyr
Olivia Hotshot: and once you know this it may creep you out if you find someone in a crowd “perv camming” you
Claudia13 Rossini: lol
Lyr Lobo: hehe
Marc Rexen: Exactly, and worse, it’s not all that accurate.
Kali Pizzaro: oops
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): smiles
JeanClaude Vollmar: OMG
JeanClaude Vollmar: LOL
Kali Pizzaro: moves her mouse quickly
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ob, they need a life 🙂 We are cartoon people, after all.
Lyr Lobo: as a designer, i cam all 6 degrees of freedom and use transparency to see..what is not seen
Lyr Lobo: /me chuckles
Lyr Lobo: not perv
Lyr Lobo: scientific
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): true Ing
Marc Rexen: I got paranoid for a few months, then turned it off, and don’t care anymore.
Olivia Hotshot: Ob, it applies in that when you talk to a student, you want the to “feel” that you are listening to them and paying attention rather than looking at the ceiling
Kali Pizzaro: yes i think it is important
Claudia13 Rossini: i love checking out ‘attachmentsÕÉ men can be so..er..interesting with those
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’d think some students would be hurt if someone was *not* looking
Lyr Lobo: definitely, Olivia
Obsequious Robonaught: ok, so AV etiquette 101 😛
Olivia Hotshot: LAST QUOTE PEOPLE (and you can quit per camming the sea horse now)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL Claudia!
Kali Pizzaro: there was a section in virtual reality book about that
Kali Pizzaro: also
Olivia Hotshot: It matters where you stand,
– There are virtual rules about where you should stand that parallel those for real interactions. In real spaces, for example, men stand farther away from other men than women. The same rules apply in virtual worlds. Give virtual colleagues some space. Be aware that it’s quite possible to literally violate gender, cultural, or situational norms based on where you position your avatar in a 3D world.
Claudia13 Rossini: grins at Iggy
Marc Rexen: Agree with that Olivia.
Kali Pizzaro: yep spatial awareness is interesting
Wrenaria Antiesse: agree
Lyr Lobo: Yes, i script my meetings spaces to take every other seat as a default
(cyber.placebo): agree too
Claudia13 Rossini: i stand a bit further away then in r/l.most av’s do
Marc Rexen: Drives folks nuts when I don’t care at times.
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): agrre, circles must be considered
Ellie Brewster: I’m surprised that even needs to be said.
Gilles Kuhn: ” men stand farther away from other men than women” depend the woman…..
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): agree*
Lyr Lobo: /me grins and agrees with Ellie
Olivia Hotshot: remember this is based on their studies
Ellie Brewster: I used to work as a cocktail waitress. I had a whole science of barstools. Who sits next to who, or two stools away….
Obsequious Robonaught: i feel too close to everyone already
Marc Rexen: That it “drives some folks nuts,” that I don’t care, and they do, says a lot.
Liana Hubbenfluff: agreed Olivia – where you stand matters!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s cultural, too. In Spain men stand closer to each other than they do in the States. Same in Turkey.
Obsequious Robonaught: i think Gilles gave me fleas.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me might be offended by Obsequious’ comment
Claudia13 Rossini: lol
(cyber.placebo): /me spills some blood on Camie and Viralber, fortunately they don’t notice
Olivia Hotshot: 33 on the sim for the transcript
Lyr Lobo: /me grins
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me inches away from Cybere
Gilles Kuhn: dont believe in revolution commoners lies about the french court before they cut their head in the name of profit making i mean “progress”…
(cyber.placebo): with avi appearance along comes emoting
Liana Hubbenfluff: gestures!
Lyr Lobo: always…. *smiles*
Liana Hubbenfluff: I love them
(cyber.placebo): to allow for the actions/situations that cannot be expressed
Obsequious Robonaught: ban them!
Buffy Beale: /me whispers sorry RL calls nice to see everyone, great discussion
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): As long as they aren’t the default gestures
Claudia13 Rossini: (he probably uses conditioner on his fur)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks for joining us, Buffy
Liana Hubbenfluff: sorry Decka
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me gags at the thoughts of SL default gestures
Marc Rexen: They should be banned.
Lyr Lobo: true, Decka *grins*
Liana Hubbenfluff: Bye Buffy
Claudia13 Rossini: gags at gestures period
Lyr Lobo: tho some of us furl them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the default walk should be banned 🙂
Lyr Lobo: bye buffy
Lyr Lobo: i agree, Ig
Olivia Hotshot: So folks, to wrap this up in a nutshell (and yes your avatar can look like a nutshell, just try not to look like a nut CASE) – be mindful of your avatars – people DO take them seriously – and just as seriously as people gague others in RL.
Ellie Brewster: Dont you just love the first class when they discover gestures? All those rude noises?
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t allow them in my classes
Obsequious Robonaught: if gestures were a shorthand, i could see using them – but for the most part – they are annoying and repetitive substitutes for actual dialog
Marc Rexen: The default walk is something you do not realize is bad until you’ve been here for a while.
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): There is something interesting, it depend on if you see in Rl the students who come to SL, when we (women teachers) wear sexy clothes in SL to teach or not conventional outfits, when you back to Rl with them the distance between teacher and students became shorter.
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Olivia
Wrenaria Antiesse: agree Ig
Liana Hubbenfluff: well some gestures are stupid and loud and rude; but many help to express feelings
Marc Rexen: If there’s a “level up” in SL, that is one of them.
Kali Pizzaro: think i still have it lol
Ellie Brewster: Oops, somebody at the door.
Sicily Zapatero: They can prove part of Branding , however. My wave is a part of mine
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Amparo, that is fascinating
Obsequious Robonaught: i use one homegrown gesture
Kali Pizzaro: mm maybe not
Liana Hubbenfluff: gestures also help in translating situations…with people speaking other languages
Obsequious Robonaught: and this is it …
Liana Hubbenfluff: everyone knows a laugh
Obsequious Robonaught: repetitive rhythmic polyphonic auditory patterns!!!â„¢
Olivia Hotshot: so if nothing else, we stirred the pot, made each other think, and had a great time with each other… be sure to come back next week. It will be just as fascinating as it was today.
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): i think so
Zotarah Shepherd: 31 on the sim
Claudia13 Rossini: throws my high heel at Olivia
Decka Mah: Amparo, I have to say that is one of hte greatest surprises to me…the number of women teachers I see who wear very …ummm… revealing outfits (or parts of an outfit)
Olivia Hotshot: ABOUT THE QUOTES: information taken in part from Byron Reeves & J. Leighton Read’s book, Total Engagement. (specifically pages 106 – 108, “Personal Guidelines for Avatars”)
Lyr Lobo: Thank you
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Wait, Obsequious, do it again- I missed it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yep…and in 2 weeks, come prepared to talk about great edu sims for new teachers in SL!
Obsequious Robonaught: repetitive rhythmic polyphonic auditory patterns!!!
Obsequious Robonaught: there’s no sound or animations .. just that.
Liana Hubbenfluff: oh good! good topic! thanks everyone!
(cyber.placebo): awww looking forward to this!!!
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): Yes Decka me for example I wear conventional clothes but my avi is not ugly 🙂
Claudia13 Rossini: OK, i want to see Iggy in one of his ties!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Sorry was taking pix
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Claudia, I’ll pose in one for the Writing Center site 🙂
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): We have a few guests next week to answer questions about LMSes and VWs
Olivia Hotshot: IF YOU DID NTO GET A T-SHIRT, IM ME. QUESTIONS ABOUT OTHER TOPICS – IM ME. WANT TO COOK ME DINNER – IM ME
Claudia13 Rossini: smiles.and send me the link?
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Liana Hubbenfluff: sorry ghost
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): thank you all it was so interesting
(cyber.placebo): thanks for bringing this topic up Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks for coming edu peoples
Liana Hubbenfluff: hope I didn’t slime you much!
Lyr Lobo: it is no modify, Olivia…. I’ve learned that in every reality, one size does not fit me *grins*
Kali Pizzaro: kali gets out of Obs outfit in rl
Kali Pizzaro: ahhhhhh
Lyr Lobo: but I thank you
Shanti Suntzu: I wonder why we try to duplicate RL so much, or an idealized version of it. It would be interesting to create a teaching situation where these symbolic conventions are not used. For example, no conventional avatars, no furniture etc… and see what students would want to create, what would be needed for communication to occur etc.tee
Kali Pizzaro: joookkkiiing!!!!
Olivia Hotshot: this one will Lyr
Wrenaria Antiesse: Olivia: I’ll cook you dinner, but you have to come over to eat it :p
Zotarah Shepherd: /me gets out the pots and pans to cook a nice dinner for Olivia. : )
Liana Hubbenfluff: bye everyone thanks!
Obsequious Robonaught: haha kali – it’s comfortable, no?
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): Agrees Shanti
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: left-over Thai here tonight 🙂
Lyr Lobo: hehe
(cyber.placebo): @ shanti once students get a feel for the environment
Kali Pizzaro: right night night folks take care all
Shanti Suntzu: yes
Marc Rexen: Then you have to “build the socialization” Shanti…if you supply “conventionalizations,” people forget the AV’s and the buildings, and focus on the content and discussion.
Lyr Lobo: it is cute…. but needs to be modifiable *smiles* thankyou… you are very kind…
(cyber.placebo): t-shirt Olivia?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thank you all…see you next week!
Olivia Hotshot: sent Cyber
Camie Rembrandt: ty. very useful as usual 🙂
Shanti Suntzu: ty all
Olivia Hotshot: last call on the t-shirt
(cyber.placebo): sent to me? didn’t get it :))
Amparo Cervantes (amparo.delvalle): thanks again i will look around, first time here
JeanClaude Vollmar: /me waves around, “Bye. See you all next week.”
(cyber.placebo): yes done
Decka Mah: bye everyone
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye everyone and Thanks Olivia
Decka Mah: thanks Olivia
Zotarah Shepherd: Nice to see you
Rk Jinn: Thanks everyone. See you all next week
Olivia Hotshot: Have a great day everyone and see you next week!
Obsequious Robonaught: but i have the occasional need for “normal”
Claudia13 Rossini: shows a lovely sense of whimse and perversion
Lyr Lobo: /me chuckles and nods
Lyr Lobo: thank you
Lyr Lobo: /me waves
Gilles Kuhn: gtg too have all a goodnight
DevLink Garside: hello all
Claudia13 Rossini: hello
Baird Barnard: Night All 🙂 “poofs”
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Hi Dev
Lyr Lobo: /me grins
Lyr Lobo: yes, i get the distinct impression that Obsequious is staring…
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Karelia is here!
Lyr Lobo: have a god night *grins*