VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable December 15, 2011
Topic: “State of the Virtual Arts, 2011″with Special Guests Wizard Gynoid, Soror Nishi, and Miso Susanowa
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hello everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable! Our topic today is “State of the Virtual Arts, 2011″
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m Joe Essid, Writing Center Director at the University of Richmond. I’ve just finished a semester with students using immersive literary build based on Poe’s “Fall of the House of Usher” in Jokaydia Grid.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today, VWER is honored to have special guests today to talk about creating and promoting their work in this environment.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: First a few words about this group, if you are new to VWER meetings.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The VWER meets each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour and is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our group has met every week for over three years and we get a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly rezzed.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting in TEXT CHAT, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The transcripts can be found at our web site – http://www.vwer.org – select the LIBRARY tab at the top.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As soon as AJ fixes the site XD
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr and Koinup groups and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Two special announcements before we start…drumroll please:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia gets out Xmas drum
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our own Margaret Czart (SL: Margaret Michalski) has successfully defended her PhD thesis,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Teaching Motivational Interviewing Using the Second Life Virtual World Platform.”
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and is now Dr. Margaret Czart!
barbarathelibrarian Magic: Ooh… wonderful
Kavon Zenovka: yay!
Zotarah Shepherd: Wow
Ridvan-Researcher (ridvan.atolia): wowww congradulations!!!
Sheila Yoshikawa: Great! Congratulations!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she worked really hard on this..defended yesterday
Miso Susanowa: congratulations Doctor
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Fantastic!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Second note: next week we’ll have our annual holiday party here. Come with your dancing shoes and ice skates!
Elphaba Helendale: congrats
Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): Yay!!
barbarathelibrarian Magic: YAY!
Lyr Lobo: Congeratulations *grins*
Wrenaria Antiesse: yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): wow awesome
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can see that Claudia has been decorating..and Grizzla, I do believe, has arranged for music at the event!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today’s format will work this way: in the first half of our meeting, I will be asking the artists a few questions.
Merlin Moonshadow: Hi, Pathfinder!
Pathfinder Lester: howdy folks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: After that, we’ll open the floor to discussion about the arts.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, thanks to Brielle
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: First of all, I would like each of our visiting artists to briefly introduce themselves and their current work.
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hiya path
Wrenaria Antiesse: Hi path! 😀
soror Nishi: hi pathfinder
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me nudges soror
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Howdy Path…go ahead, to our three guests…you have the floor 🙂
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Path
soror Nishi: shall I start?
Miso Susanowa: yes pls 😀
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 🙂
soror Nishi: Ok
Frankie Antonelli: Hi everyone
soror Nishi: Well, I make trees and flowers here.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Hi Frankie!
soror Nishi: Mainly that is to make it possible to do landscaping
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don’t be afraid to plug your Web site, either 🙂
soror Nishi: I am principally interested in landscapes
soror Nishi: When I first came to SL I waS A bit dismayed that only RL landscapes were catered for
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): howdy all. i do remarkably complex geometric sculptures that i think are ART
soror Nishi: so I set out to show an alternative
soror Nishi: go ahead wizz
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks Soror…please tip in any SLURLs or Web addresses you’d like us to see
soror Nishi: [ http://sorornishi.is ]
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’ve been doing higher dimensional geometric objects lately, like a klein bottle.
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): my things tend to crash sims and they have really high prim counts.
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’m famous for crashing sims
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): 🙂
Miso Susanowa: we need a Mic Check 😀
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Lol ^-^
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks, I’ll kill voice on the parcel if I can
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hands talking stick to miso
BackWoods Texan: i-Reckon.net is some stuff my husband and i make i-reckon
Miso Susanowa: 😀
BackWoods Texan: lol
Miso Susanowa: I’ve been working in virtual realities since 1995… or before that if you count MUDS, MOOs and other text-based but consensual spaces as “virtual” worlds. I’ve also done video-game art; designing mods and WADs for the DOOM and Unreal engines in the early 90s.
Miso Susanowa: Most of my work has a basis in sculpture; I alternate between that and political pieces. Exploring the light possible in RGB color on a monitor is also a prime study; the lucidity, transparency and flexibility of the tonal color range available in the digital display environment.
Miso Susanowa: I have two websites
Miso Susanowa: http://gomiso.blogspot.com is for artistic talk
Miso Susanowa: and http://netpolitiks.blogspot.com is about the politics of information
Miso Susanowa: *sits back down*
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me grins
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks…let’s begin with a question you can all three can just jump in to answer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Tell us about why VWs provide a place where you like to do your work…what affordances do they offer that a RL studio does not?”
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: (other than crashing sims)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 🙂
Merlin Moonshadow: lol
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): that’s easy. i don’t have to deal with gravity here
Miso Susanowa: *pokes Wizzy*
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i can just put something up and it stays there
soror Nishi: scale and economy are two things that come to mind for a sculptor
BackWoods Texan: No heavy lifting
BackWoods Texan: i like that
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i try to do that in my RL studio and it comes crashing down
soror Nishi: storage
Miso Susanowa: yes, storage too
Miso Susanowa: a nightmare in RL for materials
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My latest SL build has “prim drift” though (looks around for Kali)
soror Nishi: cheap compared to buying plaster and resin
Miso Susanowa: and “re-dos”
Miso Susanowa: not possible in 500$ worth of Lucite
soror Nishi: non toxic
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i don’t get paint on my clothes here
barbarathelibrarian Magic: hehe
Miso Susanowa: also, for me, the color/light environment I mentioned; pure tonals
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me nods…my next door neighbor keeps talking about me hanging his RL work here for some of those reasons
soror Nishi: also…I think you get a chance to try things out in a way you can’t in RL and get a load of people to view a prototype
Miso Susanowa: not possible in RL without hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of specialized equipment, and many times not even then
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i belong to a group called NPIRL Not Possible in Real Life. most of what i do is not possible in RL
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): due to the scale
soror Nishi: landscaping as an art form is almost impossible in RL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do you think the work here leads to better RL work? Our ol’ buddy Hamlet Au was saying this was needed for the arts in VWs to succeed…some sort of derived RL artifact.
Miso Susanowa: it is also… the exploration of a completely new medium, like photography was to painting, or film to photography
soror Nishi: no gravity or weathering, no health and safety..:))
Miso Susanowa: well, I have always said that I work here as a sketchpad
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i have found that my work here inspires me to create something analogous in RL. there’s some spinoff.
Miso Susanowa: many of my works I plan for RL pieces
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: no environmental impact reports
soror Nishi: /me nods
Miso Susanowa: but there’s also the exploration of what is native to this environment
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): soror is making some plaster trees in RL right now
Miso Susanowa: that is ONLY possible in this environment, like… say… AM Radio’s The Far Away
soror Nishi: yep, I’m taking stuff to RL
Miso Susanowa: you couldn’t make a walk-in Wyeth in RL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: very cool. And I agree some work can only be possible here
BackWoods Texan: You work with people from all over the world in sl. More so than some jobs in my area. I like that.
soror Nishi: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes…or Van Gogh’s “Starry Night”….Robbie Dingo’s piece was a stunner
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i love that video
soror Nishi: collab is amazing
Miso Susanowa: also. some of Wizzy’s work… gives you a visceral understanding of mathematics and geometry
soror Nishi: agreed
Miso Susanowa: something beyond my feeble maths skills
Miso Susanowa: but I can… understand it… sitting in it, exploring it
Miso Susanowa: see the beauty of it
Miso Susanowa: or a molecule I can walk into
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): if someone can see the beauty in a mathematical object, then i have succeeded.
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YAY!
Miso Susanowa: even a pixie-brainz like me
soror Nishi: “Immersive” in RL doesn’t have the same impact as it does here… here you actually walk into and participate
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): miso is anything but a pixie brain.
Miso Susanowa: also…. exploring
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We’ve been talking about the advantages of working here…and I assume that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you mean the SL Grid
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You have all begun working on grids beyond SL. You have some strong opinions about Linden Lab. Tell us about what other grids have offered you that SL has not.
Miso Susanowa: in RL… there is a DO NOT TOUCH thing to art
Miso Susanowa: it is disappointing
Miso Susanowa: and frustrating
Miso Susanowa: here, you encourage people to interact, explore things
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Don’t let me stop you, Miso
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s a great point
Miso Susanowa: I have been screamed at in museums before 😀
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students are saying just that about Poe’s story vs. the simulation
soror Nishi: I have a sim in InWorldz, it’s far cheaper, less restrictions on building sizes and better support
Miso Susanowa: but art… and learning is a lot PLAY
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’ve built on Reaction Grid (nod to Pathfinder) and Craft and OSGRID and Inworldz
barbarathelibrarian Magic: me too
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): the open sims allow me to build bigger and link bigger stuff.
Miso Susanowa: IWz is very reactive and in touch with its residents
Miso Susanowa: so are many of the independent grids
barbarathelibrarian Magic: Jokaydia too
Miso Susanowa: yes, building bigger
soror Nishi: and they are all cheaper than SL
Miso Susanowa: and linking
Miso Susanowa: also… the chance to build and not be overwhelmed with socializing
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): inworldz is almost as stable as SL. is getting close.
snow Scarmon: other virtual worlds are linking up?
soror Nishi: thgat too, yes
Miso Susanowa: yes snow, Hypergrid and other techs
Miso Susanowa: this is bleeding edge tech… but so was the WWW in 1995
soror Nishi: you can have people visit you in your own private grid now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @snow, you have Mr. Hypergrid here (gestures politely at Pathfinder)
Miso Susanowa: it took almost 6 years to stabilize and disseminate
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): also i can put more than 15,000 prims on a sim, though i haven’t pushed that.
Pathfinder Lester: I just like poking around. lol
Pathfinder Lester: hypergrid is fun
soror Nishi: :))
Miso Susanowa: lol Path ^_^ you are the BEST poker-arounder!
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me thinks pathfinder should rebake
barbarathelibrarian Magic: agrees
Pathfinder Lester: ty for the kind words Miso
soror Nishi: I think it is the future, hypergrid
Miso Susanowa: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes, and that technology would let our gridnauts hop about to see art on many grids
Miso Susanowa: today is like the first Web
Miso Susanowa: little pockets here and there
Miso Susanowa: we are in it for the future
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ keeps wanting a phone book for those pockets….
Miso Susanowa: *sigh* yes
Miso Susanowa: but say,,, in the 90s
Miso Susanowa: VRML worlds
Miso Susanowa: there were central directories for them
Miso Susanowa: you could “world-hop”
Pathfinder Lester: I think there’s a lot of potential for tech like Opensim in the future. But I’m also curious if any of the artists here are exploring VW platforms beyond both SL and Opensim.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me nods, trying to recall his MOO-Wizard commands
soror Nishi: I think there are something like 20,000 sims on Open Sim grids….so that is almost as large as SL
barbarathelibrarian Magic: Jokaydia
Miso Susanowa: Pathfinder, I have made video game art like Joseph DeLappe and the Electronic Cottage does
soror Nishi: I have my own grid on my hard drive…I use it like a studio
Pathfinder Lester: Miso, oh cool!
Miso Susanowa: yes I have one one a stick
Miso Susanowa: *on
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i have two sims on my hard drive and four on my stick
Miso Susanowa: it’s amazing
soror Nishi: no costs
Miso Susanowa: world on a stick that you can actually let people connect to
Miso Susanowa: portable
Miso Susanowa: that I see is the future
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): so sometimes i build on the hard drive and then export it back to SL
Miso Susanowa: with some kind of connecting directory…
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I see Unity as a great platform for those with skills more advanced than my own
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and as a great way to show “civilians” this sort of content in a browser
soror Nishi: /me nods
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): my good friend Desdemona Enfield tells me we may be able to export our objects from the open sims to Unity.
Miso Susanowa: yes… that and machinima
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ve read about that process. Seems doable for those with the right ‘ware and skills.
soror Nishi: machinima is an amazing facility
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think that it can be possible at all shows us that we are past the “early Web” days in these spaces
soror Nishi: yes
Miso Susanowa: well… 1995 as opposed to 1993 maybe 😀
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @soror, good point….how can machinima reach those who might not use an avatar?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: marketing?
Miso Susanowa: everyone can see You Tube now
soror Nishi: yep…and great for a portfolio
Miso Susanowa: those that cannot do the tech hardware or knowledge to do VR can always see You Tube
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My neighbor won an arts award based on a Web site with this drawings…we had to use a crowbar to get him to set one up (and a case of beer)
Nava Wonder: You Tube for sure…its my sons generation version of tv
Miso Susanowa: and music… and editing… can show a virtual piece with the mood the creator intended
Lyr Lobo: /me smiles
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i was just talking about exporting a 7200 prim object out and converting it to mesh, then importing it back in
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So machinima for a sort of 3D portfolio, then
soror Nishi: yep
Miso Susanowa: I just finished working with students at Cal State U at Long Beach on their Art110 classes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ooooh do tell
Miso Susanowa: and despite them “not being creators” they came up with an astonishing gallery
Miso Susanowa: it was the first time they ever “made” anything
Miso Susanowa: and that is such a thing about VR
Miso Susanowa: ANYONE can build
Miso Susanowa: even if it’s only some plywood cubes; it electrifies them
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): it’s better than Legos yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, my students did some great improv acting 2 weeks ago in Jokaydia Grid, for similar reasons
soror Nishi: :))
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): And better than minecraft! 🙂
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me looks around for Jokay
Miso Susanowa: I still miss my trusty zombie shotgun though
soror Nishi: indeed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: It’s the experiential element and the novelty
Miso Susanowa: it… stuns people when they build their first “thingie”
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So we are at the half-way point…
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: let’s turn to my final BIG PICTURE Q
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): uh oh
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, or even when they set up their first thingie
Miso Susanowa: why do we hate LL?
Miso Susanowa: *totally cracks up*
soror Nishi: also…with trying stuff out, the failure costs nothing unlike in RL
Miso Susanowa: oops sorry
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: NAW
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “What do you see happening in virtual-worlds arts in 2012?”
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: then we’ll open the floor to open chat
Nava Wonder: i think the interactive nature of working in VR is what makes it interesting; a story, colour, light, movement…drama, no point making 2d art in 3d world
rosavioletta: you just described me in the last week Miso: a complete enthusiastic beginner..;-)
Miso Susanowa: yes; agreed; this is such a young medium
Miso Susanowa: we are only exploring
Miso Susanowa: when photographers first began, they aped painting
soror Nishi: 2012 will just see a bit more interest from RL arts into what is happening online< I think
Miso Susanowa: until they explored the new equipment and medium
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i find art galleries in SL that show scans of RL paintings kind of silly
Miso Susanowa: yes, i think so too soror
Miso Susanowa: there are now galleries, like the one my friend Alizarin Goldflake did in Alaska
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i mean they have their place but it’s sort of silly
Miso Susanowa: which are incorporating virtual art into them as best they can with the tech available
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me hides all his Victorian paintings in House of Usher 🙂
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i need to move into mesh in 2012
Miso Susanowa: I think we are still fighting for “respectability” and “seriousness”
soror Nishi: I personally, and a few others, will be exporting stuff to RL more and more and hopefully that will help.
Miso Susanowa: and 3d printers
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): yes miso snap
Miso Susanowa: that is so exciting
Miso Susanowa: and new materials which would make some sculpture possible
Nava Wonder: snap 3d printer for sure
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I agree….these make the work tangible. Have you thought of screening machinima at RL openings?
Miso Susanowa: 3d print… to stone… or a stone analogue
soror Nishi: 3D printers will be great in two or three years time
Miso Susanowa: soror has 🙂
soror Nishi: I have done that
Zotarah Shepherd: Some RL artists think of VW art as not art at all, but not willing to come here and see for themselves. So sad.
Miso Susanowa: and I am not cataloging my work on video/machinima
Nava Wonder: im looking at a body of work painting in RL ‘portraits’ and self portaits of my various online avatars
Miso Susanowa: as both preservation and presentation
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): miso has worked with RL artist who is computer illiterate
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at openings, soror, how did folks react to the machinima?
Miso Susanowa: and planning several films using VR as the… sets
soror Nishi: that’s great Nava
Tomkin Euler: Hmm.. How are firstLife versions of virtual art done? Do you have any links?
Miso Susanowa: there’s also people like Filthy Fluno
Tomkin Euler: :0)
Miso Susanowa: who projects his VR scenes onto a canvas and paints them
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): shapeways.com tomkin
Zotarah Shepherd: He does awesome work
soror Nishi: well…at the opening I showed my work to some old friends and other artists…..I think they were a bit shell shocked
Miso Susanowa: yes, shapeways
Nava Wonder: no links atm rebuilding site ‘under construction’
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Filthy came by our Holiday Bash last year.
soror Nishi: it went over their heads a bit
Miso Susanowa: but so did early photography or film, soror
soror Nishi: yes
Miso Susanowa: that is the art-lag barrier
soror Nishi: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: soror, that is sad
soror Nishi: well…partly
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): art is about shaking things up
soror Nishi: they were all very stuck in the medium they chose 10 years ago
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and Miso is correct, but the avante-garde embraced the moving image. Dos Passos did it in print, too.
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): making peeps think
Miso Susanowa: there is inertia in the art world, always has been
Miso Susanowa: look at what Fluxus did
Miso Susanowa: freaked people out for 20 yrs
Miso Susanowa: now it is “acceptable”
soror Nishi: yes, it took years and years for photography to be called an Art
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What are the limits here, though? Every medium has them.
Miso Susanowa: hardware
Miso Susanowa: and computational power
Miso Susanowa: bandwidth
soror Nishi: yes, and broadband
Nava Wonder: agreed fine art is in a funk and has been for along time due to the persistant and needed patronage model
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah. My laptop is smokin’ right now 🙂
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i think lag is a major problem in terms of showing something to groups
soror Nishi: :)))
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 23 on the sim, btw, for the transcript
Miso Susanowa: yes; and also… the barriers to collaborative realtime work
Miso Susanowa: latency is the devil
soror Nishi: but…the future looks bright for hardware…possibly bandwidth too…but until then the resolution is a barrier for some
Miso Susanowa: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: there’s that problem on mobile devices, though
soror Nishi: yes
Miso Susanowa: *rolls eyes*
Miso Susanowa: no one expects to run MySQL on a phone
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Are drawing tools good enough?
soror Nishi: that’s where machinima and YouTube are acceptable media
Miso Susanowa: I don’t expect VR to be run on a phone either
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m told by my IT folks that in a few years, my students won’t even bring laptops any longer
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: or building tools?
Miso Susanowa: or film a great 70mm film on prime film stock
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: for accuracy, detail?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: they are consumers…we’ll all need different tools to create
Miso Susanowa: yes
Miso Susanowa: and truly… most people never wanted “computers”
Miso Susanowa: they were forced into it and are now getting away from them
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): May I ask a question? (besides the one I just asked)
Miso Susanowa: computers are big work tools and not really general consumption I think
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I find myself wondering how to show them what we do. That’s why I ran Usher in a high-end lab this year and not on their laptops
soror Nishi: I think building tools like Blender are easily good enough…I don’t think VR has improved building tools enough yet…but the limitations atre hardware and bandwidth still
Miso Susanowa: yes Iggy, that I think works… a presentation space…
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Wizard, you mentioned lag…
Miso Susanowa: look… you can make a “pretty good” film now with consumer equipment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it really hurts collaboration, doesn’t it?
Zotarah Shepherd: Grizz just ask
Miso Susanowa: but Pixar uses 1000s of computers to render and no one blinks an eye
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i would like to see an immersive helmet display, where you look around and you are in the space, rather than looking at a two D screen
Miso Susanowa: or someone films in 70mm lens with prime stock
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I’m curious – because my sister was an amazing artist who only sold a few things in her lifetime – it seems to me that few artists manage to earn a living from their creations – how does that work with virtual art? To what extent is there a “market,” and to what extent are you guys “virtually starving” artists?
Miso Susanowa: there’s levels of everything
Zotarah Shepherd: ooo Good question
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hehe i think we’re all starving.
Miso Susanowa: LOL it has never changed, Grizzla
Miso Susanowa: not for thousands of years 😀
Miso Susanowa: Van Gogh died broke and starving
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’m not in it for the money for sure
Miso Susanowa: so many artists did
Nava Wonder: some many
Miso Susanowa: now they auction for millions and live in dark vaults
Nava Wonder: *so
Miso Susanowa: is that right?
Zotarah Shepherd: There are many Art Galleries or used to be
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have 15 minutes remaining…so let’s see what others want to cover we’ve missed so far.
Zotarah Shepherd: in VWs
soror Nishi: Grizzla, I have sold hundreds of items here in SL but that doesnt make me rich because the unit price is so low, ..however, the benefit is what that does to your self belief
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): what will they be able to sell in a hundred years? a file with verifiable date stamps?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: (that was chat lag, btw)
Miso Susanowa: I do limited editions with a bonus
Miso Susanowa: a digital music file only available to the purchaser Wiz
Miso Susanowa: Added Value
soror Nishi: There are literally tens of thousands of good paintings for sale online…that is a problem
Miso Susanowa: preservation *nods*
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i mean what will future collectors be collecting of virtual art?
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): a file? or some kind of tangible manifestation of the virtual art
Miso Susanowa: the experience?
Miso Susanowa: reason to buy + content added value
Pathfinder Lester: How about selling something like a “subscription” to some of your immersive installations?
Nava Wonder: please read anything by Alan Kaprow vis a vis what an artist is today. He said artists should call themselves communicators, he started the happenings in the early 60’s
Kali Pizzaro: 24 for the transcript
Miso Susanowa: interaction with the artist? hidden extras?
Miso Susanowa: personalized music?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me waves at Kali, his current patron
Miso Susanowa: or like Commodity, where inside each piece of “me” was a dream I never told to another person
Kali Pizzaro: hello
Kali Pizzaro: waves back
Kali Pizzaro: sneaked in
Miso Susanowa: and only those buyers know that dream
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ravens told me you were coming, Kali
soror Nishi: Well, Pathfinder, an entry fee/ticket would be wonderful. If you could get it to work
Pathfinder Lester: Miso, that was a great project of yours. I loved that idea!
Miso Susanowa: yes; the entertainment model
Nava Wonder: Subscription is a great way!
Miso Susanowa: ty Pathfinder; I plan to do that one in RL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I own Miso’s head, for the record
Pathfinder Lester: soror, yes, it’s problematic getting that functionality in SL.
Miso Susanowa: micoropayments
Miso Susanowa: just like television…
Miso Susanowa: the “entertainment” of entering this… magical mirror space
Miso Susanowa: I think people will pay for that
soror Nishi: people are used to free access to art, currently
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ll put a pic in for the transcript, with a link to her announcement that she was commoditizing herself
Nava Wonder: payments made via QR codes
Miso Susanowa: they pay for museum entrances, soror…
Pathfinder Lester: I would have bought a part of Miso, but all the parts were sold by the time I arrived at the sale. Need more parts! lol
soror Nishi: hehhehehe….same here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A got ahead of you, Path 😀
Nava Wonder: lol
Miso Susanowa: LOL Pathfinder, I stopped at internal organs
soror Nishi: :)))
Miso Susanowa: but I might make you a personal gift of a kidney…
Pathfinder Lester: I would have happily bought something like a spleen
Miso Susanowa: LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Miso’s got plenty of spleen
Pathfinder Lester: kidneys are good too
Miso Susanowa: yes, I give it out free, ask anyone 😀
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i want miso’s pineal gland
soror Nishi: :)))
Pathfinder Lester: ah yes, the 3rd eye
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so other questions before we sell off Miso’s third eye?
barbarathelibrarian Magic: no questions, just want to thank the speaker…runs back to her reference desk
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me wants soror’s olecranon process
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: BTW, it was Descartes who thought that about the pineal gland (I think)
barbarathelibrarian Magic: Thank you! 🙂
soror Nishi: [don’t know what that is]
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see you next week for the party, Barbara!
Miso Susanowa: yes, thank you all for inviting me, and for putting up with my babble
barbarathelibrarian Magic: yes
barbarathelibrarian Magic: bye
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YESH
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): thanks for the invite
soror Nishi: yes…thanks, its been v interesting
Shailey Garfield: Thank you. A very good conversation
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So anything our artists want to end with today?
Miso Susanowa: Occupy Art 🙂
Pathfinder Lester: it’s been fascinating to listen to all these great artists sharing their ideas and thoughts. this was wonderful!
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you artists, Iggy and everyone. Great discussion.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 🙂
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, thank you
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: bye, all.
Pathfinder Lester: I am a big fan of each of you. 🙂
soror Nishi: no… I think we shouldn’t ber too impatient
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Pathfinder rules
Miso Susanowa: yes, agreed
soror Nishi: it will take time this stuff
Zotarah Shepherd: /me nods
Miso Susanowa: this is a developing tech
soror Nishi: yep
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s hard not to be impatient….it has such promise
soror Nishi: true
Miso Susanowa: i’ve been waiting since my first DOOM WAD Iggy
Miso Susanowa: 20 years
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we all read the Cyberpunks and dreamed it…like me watching Apollo flights in the late 60s and dreaming
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): the limitations of lag are the biggest issue i think. there has to be an architectural change to fix that
Miso Susanowa: when VRML collapsed I did game models, spaceships, mechs, landscapes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me agrees with Wizzy
Miso Susanowa: latency, bandwidth
Miso Susanowa: but the first text websites loaded so slow you could go get coffee while they loaded
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ve been waiting 40 to work on the Moon, Miso 🙁
Pathfinder Lester: if any of the artists here want to learn more about Unity3d and web-based virtual world platform options, please ping me at email@example.com. I love SL and Opensim, but I think there are even more potential platforms for artists to expand into. More mediums to explore. 🙂
Miso Susanowa: dammit Iggy I know! I should have been a waitress in a cheap bar on the Moon by now 🙁
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i agree with pathfinder. Unity is intriguing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me thinks Miso must recall “Moon Zero Two”
Pathfinder Lester: and speaking selfishly, I’d just love to see more artwork on ALL platforms out there. lol
Pathfinder Lester: i want to see more art!
Kali Pizzaro: the more the better
Kali Pizzaro: each will have a favorite
Miso Susanowa: artists explore, push, tweak, poke
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes…we should be adept enough to platform-hop
Kali Pizzaro: more for us to be amazed at
Miso Susanowa: they reveal to the designers what the parameters are
Kali Pizzaro: amazed
Miso Susanowa: because we obsess
Nava Wonder: has anyone seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): who obsesses? not moi?
Miso Susanowa: ooooooo ty Nava
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Writers do too. It’s how our brains work.
Nava Wonder: infinite geometry
Miso Susanowa: the weird thing is, “worlds in a browser”
Miso Susanowa: we had then in 1997
Miso Susanowa: in ANY browser
Miso Susanowa: in some ways i am very disappointed int he progress now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what happened, Miso?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We had a moon rocket in 1967, too
Miso Susanowa: Microsoft sabotaged Sun’s VRML and Java, Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: grrrrrrr the Great Satan of lagging progress
Nava Wonder: ^ that is the biggest limitation
Tomkin Euler: We had collaborative remote workspaces and bit mapped graphics in ’68.. it took hardware changes to hit everyone..
Nava Wonder: corporate greed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but M$ is another rant I’ll save for my blog.
Miso Susanowa: yes Tomkin
soror Nishi: agreed
Tomkin Euler: time and paradigm ..
Miso Susanowa: everyone now wants to “corner the market”
Miso Susanowa: in doing so they retard progress
Kali Pizzaro: so is it a tech change or a mindset change mmmm
Miso Susanowa: the web… exploded from 1995 to 1998
Miso Susanowa: month by month
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The latter, Kali
soror Nishi: I am annoyed at LL too for being complacent in their development of the platform
Miso Susanowa: that was group collaboration
Miso Susanowa: the power and promise of it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have the means to mine asteroids now, but not the will. Or build something like Stepenson’s Metaverse.
Miso Susanowa: yes Iggy it’s so sad
Miso Susanowa: and it would solve so many problems
Kali Pizzaro: collaboration is king in economic crisis, art, edu, research
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Where’s my fusion reactor?
soror Nishi: :))
Miso Susanowa: where’s our clean planet?
Miso Susanowa: when there’s stuff floating out there for free
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: exactly..we get ’em when they can turn a profit
Miso Susanowa: but they cramp explorers now
Miso Susanowa: many, like me, would gladly take the risks
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): there is no clear driving direction that Linden Lab has. where are they going? 3D prim versions of PacMan?
Pathfinder Lester: don’t forget about WebGL. lots of promise behind that, methinks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL
Miso Susanowa: yes, webGL
Miso Susanowa: if MS hadn’t sabotaged OpenGL also
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Well, that’s a sad note for us to end on, but I do think we had three explorers here today…and I hope they will return next year
soror Nishi: yes…I think OS is far more future orientated than LL
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes!
Miso Susanowa: thank you so much folks, it was an honor and a privilege
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You will all come back?
soror Nishi: yep
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me bows
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: YAY
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YAY!
Nava Wonder: cutting edge means lots of blood lol
Miso Susanowa: YAY!
Kali Pizzaro: great stuff sorry i was late
Zotarah Shepherd: Keep up the great work
Miso Susanowa: very nice to meet you all also
Pathfinder Lester: awesome
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okies…and come dance and throw snowballs next week, too
soror Nishi: ok
Kali Pizzaro: 3 line wip to listen to my Deans lecture
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks to everyone who attended today!
Kali Pizzaro: woooooo
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): “what I tell you 3x is true”
Pathfinder Lester: thanks for organizing this
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): “Cyberspace is real.” – Pres. Obama
Sheila Yoshikawa: and was it worth it Kali?
Miso Susanowa: “what I tell you 3x is true”
Miso Susanowa: “Cyberspace is real.” – Pres. Obama
Kali Pizzaro: yes very interesting
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Reality is surreal.” – Me
Kali Pizzaro: actually
Kali Pizzaro: 😉
Kali Pizzaro: nicky james do you know her
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe
Miso Susanowa: it’s all virtual anyways, so the physicists tell me
Kali Pizzaro: cut that from the transcript lol
Pathfinder Lester: i’ve got to head out. take care, everyone. wonderful to see so many friends here. 🙂
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Buddhists say so too
rosavioletta: Thank you all very much, I learnt a lot 🙂 Bye all.
Miso Susanowa: “the network is not the hardware; the network is the connections”
Nava Wonder: ‘Holographic Universe’
Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): cya path
Pathfinder Lester: /me waves
Kali Pizzaro: thanks to the artists
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see you all soon
Kali Pizzaro: cheers all