Dec. 15, 2011: The State of the Virtual Arts, 2011

December 15th, 2011 | Posted by iggy in Transcripts

Creative Commons License

VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at

Frankie ,Wizzy, Sheila (me), LOCE, Lyr

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable December 15, 2011

Topic: β€œState of the Virtual Arts, 2011″with Special Guests Wizard Gynoid, Soror Nishi, and Miso Susanowa

Photos by Grizzla, Iggy, & Sheila. Join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hello everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable! Our topic today is β€œState of the Virtual Arts, 2011″

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m Joe Essid, Writing Center Director at the University of Richmond. I’ve just finished a semester with students using immersive literary build based on Poe’s “Fall of the House of Usher” in Jokaydia Grid.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today, VWER is honored to have special guests today to talk about creating and promoting their work in this environment.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: First a few words about this group, if you are new to VWER meetings.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The VWER meets each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour and is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our group has met every week for over three years and we get a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly rezzed.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting in TEXT CHAT, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The transcripts can be found at our web site – – select the LIBRARY tab at the top.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As soon as AJ fixes the site XD

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr and Koinup groups and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Two special announcements before we start…drumroll please:

Ignatius Onomatopoeia gets out Xmas drum

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our own Margaret Czart (SL: Margaret Michalski) has successfully defended her PhD thesis,

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Teaching Motivational Interviewing Using the Second Life Virtual World Platform.”

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and is now Dr. Margaret Czart!

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Ooh… wonderful

Kavon Zenovka: yay!

Zotarah Shepherd: Wow

Ridvan-Researcher (ridvan.atolia): wowww congradulations!!!

Sheila Yoshikawa: Great! Congratulations!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she worked really hard on this..defended yesterday

Miso Susanowa: congratulations Doctor

D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Fantastic!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Second note: next week we’ll have our annual holiday party here. Come with your dancing shoes and ice skates!

Elphaba Helendale: congrats

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): Yay!!

barbarathelibrarian Magic: YAY!

Lyr Lobo: Congeratulations *grins*

Wrenaria Antiesse: yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): wow awesome

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can see that Claudia has been decorating..and Grizzla, I do believe, has arranged for music at the event!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today’s format will work this way: in the first half of our meeting, I will be asking the artists a few questions.

Merlin Moonshadow: Hi, Pathfinder!

Pathfinder Lester: howdy folks

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: After that, we’ll open the floor to discussion about the arts.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, thanks to Brielle

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: First of all, I would like each of our visiting artists to briefly introduce themselves and their current work.

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hiya path

Wrenaria Antiesse: Hi path! πŸ˜€

soror Nishi: hi pathfinder

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me nudges soror

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Howdy Path…go ahead, to our three guests…you have the floor πŸ™‚

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Path

soror Nishi: shall I start?

Miso Susanowa: yes pls πŸ˜€

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: πŸ™‚

soror Nishi: Ok

Frankie Antonelli: Hi everyone

rosavioletta: Hi:-)


soror Nishi: Well, I make trees and flowers here.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Hi Frankie!

soror Nishi: Mainly that is to make it possible to do landscaping

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don’t be afraid to plug your Web site, either πŸ™‚

soror Nishi: I am principally interested in landscapes

soror Nishi: When I first came to SL I waS A bit dismayed that only RL landscapes were catered for

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): howdy all. i do remarkably complex geometric sculptures that i think are ART

soror Nishi: so I set out to show an alternative

soror Nishi: go ahead wizz

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks Soror…please tip in any SLURLs or Web addresses you’d like us to see

soror Nishi: [ ]

Wizard Gynoid, Dec. 15 2011

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’ve been doing higher dimensional geometric objects lately, like a klein bottle.

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): my things tend to crash sims and they have really high prim counts.

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’m famous for crashing sims

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): πŸ™‚

Miso Susanowa: we need a Mic Check πŸ˜€

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Lol ^-^

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks, I’ll kill voice on the parcel if I can

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hands talking stick to miso

BackWoods Texan: is some stuff my husband and i make i-reckon

Miso Susanowa: πŸ˜€

BackWoods Texan: lol


Miso Susanowa: I’ve been working in virtual realities since 1995… or before that if you count MUDS, MOOs and other text-based but consensual spaces as “virtual” worlds. I’ve also done video-game art; designing mods and WADs for the DOOM and Unreal engines in the early 90s.

Miso Susanowa: Most of my work has a basis in sculpture; I alternate between that and political pieces. Exploring the light possible in RGB color on a monitor is also a prime study; the lucidity, transparency and flexibility of the tonal color range available in the digital display environment.

Miso Susanowa: I have two websites

Miso Susanowa: is for artistic talk

Miso Susanowa: and is about the politics of information

Miso Susanowa: *sits back down*

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me grins

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks…let’s begin with a question you can all three can just jump in to answer

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Tell us about why VWs provide a place where you like to do your work…what affordances do they offer that a RL studio does not?”

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: (other than crashing sims)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: πŸ™‚

Merlin Moonshadow: lol

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): that’s easy. i don’t have to deal with gravity here

Miso Susanowa: *pokes Wizzy*

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i can just put something up and it stays there

soror Nishi: scale and economy are two things that come to mind for a sculptor

BackWoods Texan: No heavy lifting

BackWoods Texan: i like that

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i try to do that in my RL studio and it comes crashing down

soror Nishi: storage

Miso Susanowa: yes, storage too

Miso Susanowa: a nightmare in RL for materials

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My latest SL build has “prim drift” though (looks around for Kali)

soror Nishi: cheap compared to buying plaster and resin

Miso Susanowa: and “re-dos”

Miso Susanowa: not possible in 500$ worth of Lucite

soror Nishi: non toxic

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i don’t get paint on my clothes here

barbarathelibrarian Magic: hehe

Miso Susanowa: also, for me, the color/light environment I mentioned; pure tonals

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me nods…my next door neighbor keeps talking about me hanging his RL work here for some of those reasons

soror Nishi: also…I think you get a chance to try things out in a way you can’t in RL and get a load of people to view a prototype

Miso Susanowa: not possible in RL without hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of specialized equipment, and many times not even then

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i belong to a group called NPIRL Not Possible in Real Life. most of what i do is not possible in RL

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): due to the scale

soror Nishi: landscaping as an art form is almost impossible in RL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do you think the work here leads to better RL work? Our ol’ buddy Hamlet Au was saying this was needed for the arts in VWs to succeed…some sort of derived RL artifact.

Miso Susanowa: it is also… the exploration of a completely new medium, like photography was to painting, or film to photography

soror Nishi: no gravity or weathering, no health and safety..:))

Miso Susanowa: well, I have always said that I work here as a sketchpad

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i have found that my work here inspires me to create something analogous in RL. there’s some spinoff.

Miso Susanowa: many of my works I plan for RL pieces

LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: no environmental impact reports

soror Nishi: /me nods

Miso Susanowa: but there’s also the exploration of what is native to this environment

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): soror is making some plaster trees in RL right now

Miso Susanowa: that is ONLY possible in this environment, like… say… AM Radio’s The Far Away

soror Nishi: yep, I’m taking stuff to RL

Miso Susanowa: you couldn’t make a walk-in Wyeth in RL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: very cool. And I agree some work can only be possible here

BackWoods Texan: You work with people from all over the world in sl. More so than some jobs in my area. I like that.

soror Nishi: yes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes…or Van Gogh’s “Starry Night”….Robbie Dingo’s piece was a stunner

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i love that video

soror Nishi: collab is amazing

Miso Susanowa: also. some of Wizzy’s work… gives you a visceral understanding of mathematics and geometry

soror Nishi: agreed

Miso Susanowa: something beyond my feeble maths skills

Miso Susanowa: but I can… understand it… sitting in it, exploring it

Miso Susanowa: see the beauty of it

Miso Susanowa: or a molecule I can walk into

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): if someone can see the beauty in a mathematical object, then i have succeeded.

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YAY!

Miso Susanowa: even a pixie-brainz like me

soror Nishi: “Immersive” in RL doesn’t have the same impact as it does here… here you actually walk into and participate

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): miso is anything but a pixie brain.

Miso Susanowa: also…. exploring

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We’ve been talking about the advantages of working here…and I assume that

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you mean the SL Grid

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You have all begun working on grids beyond SL. You have some strong opinions about Linden Lab. Tell us about what other grids have offered you that SL has not.

Miso Susanowa: in RL… there is a DO NOT TOUCH thing to art

Miso Susanowa: it is disappointing

Miso Susanowa: and frustrating

Miso Susanowa: here, you encourage people to interact, explore things

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Don’t let me stop you, Miso

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s a great point

Miso Susanowa: I have been screamed at in museums before πŸ˜€

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students are saying just that about Poe’s story vs. the simulation

soror Nishi: I have a sim in InWorldz, it’s far cheaper, less restrictions on building sizes and better support

Miso Susanowa: but art… and learning is a lot PLAY

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’ve built on Reaction Grid (nod to Pathfinder) and Craft and OSGRID and Inworldz

barbarathelibrarian Magic: me too

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): the open sims allow me to build bigger and link bigger stuff.

Miso Susanowa: IWz is very reactive and in touch with its residents

Miso Susanowa: so are many of the independent grids

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Jokaydia too

Miso Susanowa: yes, building bigger

soror Nishi: and they are all cheaper than SL

Miso Susanowa: and linking

Miso Susanowa: also… the chance to build and not be overwhelmed with socializing

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): inworldz is almost as stable as SL. is getting close.

snow Scarmon: other virtual worlds are linking up?

soror Nishi: thgat too, yes

Miso Susanowa: yes snow, Hypergrid and other techs

Miso Susanowa: this is bleeding edge tech… but so was the WWW in 1995

soror Nishi: you can have people visit you in your own private grid now

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @snow, you have Mr. Hypergrid here (gestures politely at Pathfinder)

Miso Susanowa: it took almost 6 years to stabilize and disseminate

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): also i can put more than 15,000 prims on a sim, though i haven’t pushed that.

Pathfinder Lester: I just like poking around. lol

Pathfinder Lester: hypergrid is fun

soror Nishi: :))

Miso Susanowa: lol Path ^_^ you are the BEST poker-arounder!

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me thinks pathfinder should rebake

barbarathelibrarian Magic: agrees

Pathfinder Lester: ty for the kind words Miso

soror Nishi: I think it is the future, hypergrid

Miso Susanowa: yes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes, and that technology would let our gridnauts hop about to see art on many grids

Miso Susanowa: today is like the first Web

Miso Susanowa: little pockets here and there

Miso Susanowa: we are in it for the future

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ keeps wanting a phone book for those pockets….

Miso Susanowa: *sigh* yes

Miso Susanowa: but say,,, in the 90s

Miso Susanowa: VRML worlds

Miso Susanowa: there were central directories for them

Miso Susanowa: you could “world-hop”

Pathfinder Lester: I think there’s a lot of potential for tech like Opensim in the future. But I’m also curious if any of the artists here are exploring VW platforms beyond both SL and Opensim.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me nods, trying to recall his MOO-Wizard commands

soror Nishi: I think there are something like 20,000 sims on Open Sim grids….so that is almost as large as SL

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Jokaydia

Miso Susanowa: Pathfinder, I have made video game art like Joseph DeLappe and the Electronic Cottage does

soror Nishi: I have my own grid on my hard drive…I use it like a studio

Pathfinder Lester: Miso, oh cool!

Miso Susanowa: yes I have one one a stick

Miso Susanowa: *on

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i have two sims on my hard drive and four on my stick

Miso Susanowa: it’s amazing

soror Nishi: no costs

Miso Susanowa: world on a stick that you can actually let people connect to

Miso Susanowa: portable

Miso Susanowa: that I see is the future

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): so sometimes i build on the hard drive and then export it back to SL

Miso Susanowa: with some kind of connecting directory…

Pathfinder Lester: I spend a lot of time these days working in Unity3d, which is what ReactionGrid’s “Jibe” virtual world platform is based on. Very interesting to me to be able to script in Javascript and use mesh models for everything.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I see Unity as a great platform for those with skills more advanced than my own

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and as a great way to show “civilians” this sort of content in a browser

soror Nishi: /me nods

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): my good friend Desdemona Enfield tells me we may be able to export our objects from the open sims to Unity.

Miso Susanowa: yes… that and machinima

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ve read about that process. Seems doable for those with the right ‘ware and skills.

soror Nishi: machinima is an amazing facility

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think that it can be possible at all shows us that we are past the “early Web” days in these spaces

soror Nishi: yes

Miso Susanowa: well… 1995 as opposed to 1993 maybe πŸ˜€

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @soror, good point….how can machinima reach those who might not use an avatar?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: marketing?

Miso Susanowa: everyone can see You Tube now

soror Nishi: yep…and great for a portfolio

Miso Susanowa: those that cannot do the tech hardware or knowledge to do VR can always see You Tube

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My neighbor won an arts award based on a Web site with this drawings…we had to use a crowbar to get him to set one up (and a case of beer)

Nava Wonder: You Tube for sure…its my sons generation version of tv

Miso Susanowa: and music… and editing… can show a virtual piece with the mood the creator intended

Lyr Lobo: /me smiles

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i was just talking about exporting a 7200 prim object out and converting it to mesh, then importing it back in

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So machinima for a sort of 3D portfolio, then

soror Nishi: yep

Miso Susanowa: I just finished working with students at Cal State U at Long Beach on their Art110 classes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ooooh do tell

Miso Susanowa: and despite them “not being creators” they came up with an astonishing gallery

Miso Susanowa: it was the first time they ever “made” anything

Miso Susanowa: and that is such a thing about VR

Miso Susanowa: ANYONE can build

Miso Susanowa: even if it’s only some plywood cubes; it electrifies them

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): it’s better than Legos yes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, my students did some great improv acting 2 weeks ago in Jokaydia Grid, for similar reasons

soror Nishi: :))

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): And better than minecraft! πŸ™‚

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me looks around for Jokay


Miso Susanowa: I still miss my trusty zombie shotgun though

soror Nishi: indeed

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: It’s the experiential element and the novelty

Miso Susanowa: it… stuns people when they build their first “thingie”

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So we are at the half-way point…

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: let’s turn to my final BIG PICTURE Q

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): uh oh

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, or even when they set up their first thingie

Miso Susanowa: why do we hate LL?

Miso Susanowa: *totally cracks up*

soror Nishi: also…with trying stuff out, the failure costs nothing unlike in RL

Miso Susanowa: oops sorry

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: NAW

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): LOL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “What do you see happening in virtual-worlds arts in 2012?”

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: then we’ll open the floor to open chat

Nava Wonder: i think the interactive nature of working in VR is what makes it interesting; a story, colour, light, movement…drama, no point making 2d art in 3d world

rosavioletta: you just described me in the last week Miso: a complete enthusiastic beginner..;-)

Miso Susanowa: yes; agreed; this is such a young medium

Miso Susanowa: we are only exploring

Miso Susanowa: when photographers first began, they aped painting

soror Nishi: 2012 will just see a bit more interest from RL arts into what is happening online< I think

Miso Susanowa: until they explored the new equipment and medium

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i find art galleries in SL that show scans of RL paintings kind of silly

Miso Susanowa: yes, i think so too soror

Miso Susanowa: there are now galleries, like the one my friend Alizarin Goldflake did in Alaska

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i mean they have their place but it’s sort of silly

Miso Susanowa: which are incorporating virtual art into them as best they can with the tech available

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me hides all his Victorian paintings in House of Usher πŸ™‚

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i need to move into mesh in 2012

Miso Susanowa: I think we are still fighting for “respectability” and “seriousness”

soror Nishi: I personally, and a few others, will be exporting stuff to RL more and more and hopefully that will help.

Miso Susanowa: and 3d printers

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): yes miso snap

Miso Susanowa: that is so exciting

Miso Susanowa: and new materials which would make some sculpture possible

Nava Wonder: snap 3d printer for sure

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I agree….these make the work tangible. Have you thought of screening machinima at RL openings?

Miso Susanowa: 3d print… to stone… or a stone analogue

soror Nishi: 3D printers will be great in two or three years time

Miso Susanowa: soror has πŸ™‚

soror Nishi: I have done that

Zotarah Shepherd: Some RL artists think of VW art as not art at all, but not willing to come here and see for themselves. So sad.

Miso Susanowa: and I am not cataloging my work on video/machinima

Nava Wonder: im looking at a body of work painting in RL ‘portraits’ and self portaits of my various online avatars

Miso Susanowa: as both preservation and presentation

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): miso has worked with RL artist who is computer illiterate

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at openings, soror, how did folks react to the machinima?

Miso Susanowa: and planning several films using VR as the… sets

soror Nishi: that’s great Nava

Tomkin Euler: Hmm.. How are firstLife versions of virtual art done? Do you have any links?

Miso Susanowa: there’s also people like Filthy Fluno

Tomkin Euler: :0)

Miso Susanowa: who projects his VR scenes onto a canvas and paints them

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): tomkin

Zotarah Shepherd: He does awesome work

soror Nishi: well…at the opening I showed my work to some old friends and other artists…..I think they were a bit shell shocked

Miso Susanowa: yes, shapeways

Nava Wonder: no links atm rebuilding site ‘under construction’

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Filthy came by our Holiday Bash last year.

soror Nishi: it went over their heads a bit

Miso Susanowa: but so did early photography or film, soror

soror Nishi: yes

Miso Susanowa: that is the art-lag barrier

soror Nishi: yes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: soror, that is sad

soror Nishi: well…partly

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): art is about shaking things up

soror Nishi: they were all very stuck in the medium they chose 10 years ago

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and Miso is correct, but the avante-garde embraced the moving image. Dos Passos did it in print, too.

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): making peeps think

Miso Susanowa: there is inertia in the art world, always has been

Miso Susanowa: look at what Fluxus did

Miso Susanowa: freaked people out for 20 yrs

Miso Susanowa: now it is “acceptable”

soror Nishi: yes, it took years and years for photography to be called an Art

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What are the limits here, though? Every medium has them.

Miso Susanowa: hardware

Miso Susanowa: and computational power

Miso Susanowa: bandwidth

soror Nishi: yes, and broadband

Nava Wonder: agreed fine art is in a funk and has been for along time due to the persistant and needed patronage model

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah. My laptop is smokin’ right now πŸ™‚

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i think lag is a major problem in terms of showing something to groups

soror Nishi: :)))

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 23 on the sim, btw, for the transcript

Miso Susanowa: yes; and also… the barriers to collaborative realtime work

Miso Susanowa: latency is the devil

soror Nishi: but…the future looks bright for hardware…possibly bandwidth too…but until then the resolution is a barrier for some

Miso Susanowa: yes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: there’s that problem on mobile devices, though

soror Nishi: yes

Miso Susanowa: *rolls eyes*

Miso Susanowa: no one expects to run MySQL on a phone

LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Are drawing tools good enough?

soror Nishi: that’s where machinima and YouTube are acceptable media

Miso Susanowa: I don’t expect VR to be run on a phone either

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m told by my IT folks that in a few years, my students won’t even bring laptops any longer

LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: or building tools?

Miso Susanowa: or film a great 70mm film on prime film stock

LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: for accuracy, detail?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: they are consumers…we’ll all need different tools to create

Miso Susanowa: yes

Miso Susanowa: and truly… most people never wanted “computers”

Miso Susanowa: they were forced into it and are now getting away from them

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): May I ask a question? (besides the one I just asked)


Miso Susanowa: computers are big work tools and not really general consumption I think

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I find myself wondering how to show them what we do. That’s why I ran Usher in a high-end lab this year and not on their laptops

soror Nishi: I think building tools like Blender are easily good enough…I don’t think VR has improved building tools enough yet…but the limitations atre hardware and bandwidth still

Miso Susanowa: yes Iggy, that I think works… a presentation space…

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Wizard, you mentioned lag…

Miso Susanowa: look… you can make a “pretty good” film now with consumer equipment

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it really hurts collaboration, doesn’t it?

Zotarah Shepherd: Grizz just ask

Miso Susanowa: but Pixar uses 1000s of computers to render and no one blinks an eye

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i would like to see an immersive helmet display, where you look around and you are in the space, rather than looking at a two D screen

Miso Susanowa: or someone films in 70mm lens with prime stock

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I’m curious – because my sister was an amazing artist who only sold a few things in her lifetime – it seems to me that few artists manage to earn a living from their creations – how does that work with virtual art? To what extent is there a “market,” and to what extent are you guys “virtually starving” artists?

Miso Susanowa: there’s levels of everything

Zotarah Shepherd: ooo Good question

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): hehe i think we’re all starving.

Miso Susanowa: LOL it has never changed, Grizzla

Miso Susanowa: not for thousands of years πŸ˜€

Miso Susanowa: Van Gogh died broke and starving

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i’m not in it for the money for sure

Miso Susanowa: so many artists did

Nava Wonder: some many

Miso Susanowa: now they auction for millions and live in dark vaults

Nava Wonder: *so

Miso Susanowa: is that right?

Zotarah Shepherd: There are many Art Galleries or used to be

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have 15 minutes remaining…so let’s see what others want to cover we’ve missed so far.

Zotarah Shepherd: in VWs

soror Nishi: Grizzla, I have sold hundreds of items here in SL but that doesnt make me rich because the unit price is so low, ..however, the benefit is what that does to your self belief

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): what will they be able to sell in a hundred years? a file with verifiable date stamps?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: (that was chat lag, btw)

Miso Susanowa: I do limited editions with a bonus

Miso Susanowa: a digital music file only available to the purchaser Wiz

Miso Susanowa: Added Value

soror Nishi: There are literally tens of thousands of good paintings for sale online…that is a problem

Miso Susanowa: preservation *nods*

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i mean what will future collectors be collecting of virtual art?

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): a file? or some kind of tangible manifestation of the virtual art

Miso Susanowa: the experience?

Miso Susanowa: reason to buy + content added value

Pathfinder Lester: How about selling something like a “subscription” to some of your immersive installations?

Nava Wonder: please read anything by Alan Kaprow vis a vis what an artist is today. He said artists should call themselves communicators, he started the happenings in the early 60’s

Kali Pizzaro: 24 for the transcript

Miso Susanowa: interaction with the artist? hidden extras?

Miso Susanowa: personalized music?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me waves at Kali, his current patron

Miso Susanowa: or like Commodity, where inside each piece of “me” was a dream I never told to another person

Kali Pizzaro: hello

Kali Pizzaro: waves back

Kali Pizzaro: sneaked in

Miso Susanowa: and only those buyers know that dream

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ravens told me you were coming, Kali

soror Nishi: Well, Pathfinder, an entry fee/ticket would be wonderful. If you could get it to work

Pathfinder Lester: Miso, that was a great project of yours. I loved that idea!

Miso Susanowa: yes; the entertainment model

Nava Wonder: Subscription is a great way!

Miso Susanowa: ty Pathfinder; I plan to do that one in RL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I own Miso’s head, for the record

Pathfinder Lester: soror, yes, it’s problematic getting that functionality in SL.

Miso Susanowa: micoropayments

Miso Susanowa: just like television…

Miso Susanowa: the “entertainment” of entering this… magical mirror space

Miso Susanowa: I think people will pay for that

soror Nishi: people are used to free access to art, currently

At Iggys Gallery

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ll put a pic in for the transcript, with a link to her announcement that she was commoditizing herself

Nava Wonder: payments made via QR codes

Miso Susanowa: they pay for museum entrances, soror…

Pathfinder Lester: I would have bought a part of Miso, but all the parts were sold by the time I arrived at the sale. Need more parts! lol

soror Nishi: hehhehehe….same here

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A got ahead of you, Path πŸ˜€

Nava Wonder: lol

Miso Susanowa: LOL Pathfinder, I stopped at internal organs

soror Nishi: :)))

Miso Susanowa: but I might make you a personal gift of a kidney…

Pathfinder Lester: I would have happily bought something like a spleen

Miso Susanowa: LOL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Miso’s got plenty of spleen

Pathfinder Lester: kidneys are good too

Miso Susanowa: yes, I give it out free, ask anyone πŸ˜€

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i want miso’s pineal gland

soror Nishi: :)))

Pathfinder Lester: ah yes, the 3rd eye

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so other questions before we sell off Miso’s third eye?

barbarathelibrarian Magic: no questions, just want to thank the speaker…runs back to her reference desk

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me wants soror’s olecranon process

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: BTW, it was Descartes who thought that about the pineal gland (I think)

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Thank you! πŸ™‚

soror Nishi: [don’t know what that is]

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see you next week for the party, Barbara!

Miso Susanowa: yes, thank you all for inviting me, and for putting up with my babble

barbarathelibrarian Magic: yes

barbarathelibrarian Magic: bye

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YESH

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): thanks for the invite

soror Nishi: yes…thanks, its been v interesting

Shailey Garfield: Thank you. A very good conversation

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So anything our artists want to end with today?

Miso Susanowa: Occupy Art πŸ™‚

Pathfinder Lester: it’s been fascinating to listen to all these great artists sharing their ideas and thoughts. this was wonderful!

Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you artists, Iggy and everyone. Great discussion.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: πŸ™‚

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, thank you

LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: bye, all.

Pathfinder Lester: I am a big fan of each of you. πŸ™‚

soror Nishi: no… I think we shouldn’t ber too impatient

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Pathfinder rules

Miso Susanowa: yes, agreed

soror Nishi: it will take time this stuff

Zotarah Shepherd: /me nods

Miso Susanowa: this is a developing tech

soror Nishi: yep

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it’s hard not to be impatient….it has such promise

soror Nishi: true

Miso Susanowa: i’ve been waiting since my first DOOM WAD Iggy

Miso Susanowa: 20 years

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we all read the Cyberpunks and dreamed it…like me watching Apollo flights in the late 60s and dreaming

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): the limitations of lag are the biggest issue i think. there has to be an architectural change to fix that

Miso Susanowa: when VRML collapsed I did game models, spaceships, mechs, landscapes

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me agrees with Wizzy

Miso Susanowa: latency, bandwidth

Lyr, Zotarah, barbarathelibrarian

Miso Susanowa: but the first text websites loaded so slow you could go get coffee while they loaded

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’ve been waiting 40 to work on the Moon, Miso πŸ™

Pathfinder Lester: if any of the artists here want to learn more about Unity3d and web-based virtual world platform options, please ping me at I love SL and Opensim, but I think there are even more potential platforms for artists to expand into. More mediums to explore. πŸ™‚

Miso Susanowa: dammit Iggy I know! I should have been a waitress in a cheap bar on the Moon by now πŸ™

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): i agree with pathfinder. Unity is intriguing

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: /me thinks Miso must recall “Moon Zero Two”

Pathfinder Lester: and speaking selfishly, I’d just love to see more artwork on ALL platforms out there. lol

Pathfinder Lester: i want to see more art!

Kali Pizzaro: the more the better

Kali Pizzaro: each will have a favorite

Miso Susanowa: artists explore, push, tweak, poke

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes…we should be adept enough to platform-hop

Kali Pizzaro: more for us to be amazed at

Miso Susanowa: they reveal to the designers what the parameters are

Kali Pizzaro: amazed

Miso Susanowa: because we obsess

Nava Wonder: has anyone seen this?

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): who obsesses? not moi?

Miso Susanowa: ooooooo ty Nava

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Writers do too. It’s how our brains work.

Nava Wonder: infinite geometry

Miso Susanowa: the weird thing is, “worlds in a browser”

Miso Susanowa: we had then in 1997

Miso Susanowa: in ANY browser

Miso Susanowa: in some ways i am very disappointed int he progress now

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what happened, Miso?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We had a moon rocket in 1967, too

Miso Susanowa: Microsoft sabotaged Sun’s VRML and Java, Iggy

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: grrrrrrr the Great Satan of lagging progress

Nava Wonder: ^ that is the biggest limitation

Tomkin Euler: We had collaborative remote workspaces and bit mapped graphics in ’68.. it took hardware changes to hit everyone..

Nava Wonder: corporate greed

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but M$ is another rant I’ll save for my blog.

Miso Susanowa: yes Tomkin

soror Nishi: agreed

Tomkin Euler: time and paradigm ..

Miso Susanowa: everyone now wants to “corner the market”

Miso Susanowa: in doing so they retard progress

Kali Pizzaro: so is it a tech change or a mindset change mmmm

Miso Susanowa: the web… exploded from 1995 to 1998

Miso Susanowa: month by month

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The latter, Kali

soror Nishi: I am annoyed at LL too for being complacent in their development of the platform

Miso Susanowa: that was group collaboration

Miso Susanowa: the power and promise of it

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have the means to mine asteroids now, but not the will. Or build something like Stepenson’s Metaverse.

Miso Susanowa: yes Iggy it’s so sad

Miso Susanowa: and it would solve so many problems

Kali Pizzaro: collaboration is king in economic crisis, art, edu, research

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Where’s my fusion reactor?

soror Nishi: :))

Miso Susanowa: where’s our clean planet?

Miso Susanowa: when there’s stuff floating out there for free

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: exactly..we get ’em when they can turn a profit

Miso Susanowa: but they cramp explorers now

Miso Susanowa: many, like me, would gladly take the risks

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): there is no clear driving direction that Linden Lab has. where are they going? 3D prim versions of PacMan?

Pathfinder Lester: don’t forget about WebGL. lots of promise behind that, methinks.

Miso Susanowa: yes, webGL

Miso Susanowa: if MS hadn’t sabotaged OpenGL also

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Well, that’s a sad note for us to end on, but I do think we had three explorers here today…and I hope they will return next year

soror Nishi: yes…I think OS is far more future orientated than LL

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes!

Miso Susanowa: thank you so much folks, it was an honor and a privilege

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You will all come back?

soror Nishi: yep

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): /me bows

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: YAY

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): YAY!

Nava Wonder: cutting edge means lots of blood lol

Miso Susanowa: YAY!

Kali Pizzaro: great stuff sorry i was late

Zotarah Shepherd: Keep up the great work

Miso Susanowa: very nice to meet you all also

Pathfinder Lester: awesome

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okies…and come dance and throw snowballs next week, too

soror Nishi: ok

Kali Pizzaro: 3 line wip to listen to my Deans lecture

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks to everyone who attended today!

Kali Pizzaro: woooooo

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): “what I tell you 3x is true”

Pathfinder Lester: thanks for organizing this

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): “Cyberspace is real.” – Pres. Obama

Sheila Yoshikawa: and was it worth it Kali?

Miso Susanowa: “what I tell you 3x is true”

Miso Susanowa: “Cyberspace is real.” – Pres. Obama

Kali Pizzaro: yes very interesting

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: “Reality is surreal.” – Me

Kali Pizzaro: actually

Kali Pizzaro: πŸ˜‰

Kali Pizzaro: nicky james do you know her

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe

Miso Susanowa: it’s all virtual anyways, so the physicists tell me

Kali Pizzaro: cut that from the transcript lol

Pathfinder Lester: i’ve got to head out. take care, everyone. wonderful to see so many friends here. πŸ™‚

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): Buddhists say so too

rosavioletta: Thank you all very much, I learnt a lot πŸ™‚ Bye all.

Miso Susanowa: “the network is not the hardware; the network is the connections”

Nava Wonder: ‘Holographic Universe’

Wizzy Gynoid (wizard.gynoid): cya path

Pathfinder Lester: /me waves

Kali Pizzaro: thanks to the artists

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see you all soon

Kali Pizzaro: cheers all


You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 You can leave a response, or trackback.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *