VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
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Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable September 6, 2012
Topic: Do as I Say, Not as I Do : Successes and Challenges of Education in the Virtual World
Photos, by Grizzla. Please join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!
Kali Pizzaro: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour. 7:30pm In UK, 2:30pm est
Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Kali Pizzaro: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said in local chat. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.
Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable continues to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas. Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. https://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/
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Kali Pizzaro: Tonight’s theme: Do as I say not as I do : successes and challenges of education in the VW
Kali Pizzaro: let’s start as we always do with introductions. I am Evelyn McElhinney RN, Lecturer in Advanced Practice and part time doctoral student at Glasgow Caledonian University in Scotland.
Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia….newly repaired builder
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Joe Essid, University of Richmond English & Writing Center, teaching with virtual worlds since 2007. I run simulations based on Poe’s House of Usher in SL and Jokaydia Grid
David Stack (richmedia): I’m David Stack, Deputy CIO at UW-Milwaukee.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, Virtual Assistant, Georgia Gwinnett College
Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, PhD, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Barbara Truman, Dir of CourseDev, Center for Distributed Learning, Univ Central FL in Orlando
Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, social and immersive media manager at Oregon State University
Galileo Zeplin: Ed Johnson, University System of Georgia
Tray (tray.rivera): Tray Rivera Professor of Theology, MN
Marylou Goldrosen: I am Mary Stokrocki from Arizona State University, Professor of Art & Technology. Just returned from Fulbright teaching on virtual worlds in Taiwan
Claudia13 Rossini: cool MaryLou
Kali Pizzaro: ok so this week we are looking at Do as I say not as I do : successes and challenges of education in the VW
Kali Pizzaro: so first who has taught in a VW – just say me or nae
Grinn Pidgeon: not
Claudia13 Rossini: (sort of)
David Stack (richmedia): No
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): not really
Kali Pizzaro: me
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Have taught orientation only
Marylou Goldrosen: ME
Praxislady Witt: me
Marylou Goldrosen: ME TOO
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): me
Beth Ghostraven: no
Wrenaria Antiesse: nope, just orientation stuff
Kali Pizzaro: ok so who would say they have been taught
Marylou Goldrosen: Teach Digital Ethnography
Tray (tray.rivera): nae
Kali Pizzaro: me
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): moi
Praxislady Witt: me
Claudia13 Rossini: (sort of)
Beth Ghostraven: yes, in & about VW
Marylou Goldrosen: did research where I played role of student
David Stack (richmedia): nae – other than what I’ve learned in this group 
Tray (tray.rivera): not officially
Kali Pizzaro: ok but still quite a few who have taught or have been taught
Kali Pizzaro: so lets look first to what we think as the teachers are our successes – who wants to kick off
Praxislady Witt: I think teaching is the best way to learn, heehee
Kali Pizzaro: does not need to be anything fancy just something you think went well
Claudia13 Rossini: well, i’m not officially a teacher, but my student did learn to build quite well
Marylou Goldrosen: Even though I prepare and start on Blackboard, I learn with my students
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Successes? After 3 mistakes, getting content in the class linked to the VW assignment for Usher. Then repeating with similar results.
Kali Pizzaro: ok so tell us how you went about that Claudia how did you set it up
Claudia13 Rossini: i broke things down for him into simple segments….beyond just stick texture on prim, link, into helping him understand proportions by comparing his av size and to when looking at an item to break it into structural components
Kali Pizzaro: ok so each smaller section built onto the next?
Claudia13 Rossini: yes
Kali Pizzaro: sounds like pedagogy to me
Kali Pizzaro: scaffolding 
so he got a bit of a reward when successful
Claudia13 Rossini: only way i know to teach….
Birdie Newcomb: Ah, so that’s what scaffolding is
Claudia13 Rossini: yes…and when something was wrong…i was direct and simple in explaining why
Kali Pizzaro: so was it a particular build or just how to, link , shape etc
Marylou Goldrosen: I use models, love the flexible and wind tools under Build for students to play with – Montessori sandbox for big kids
Kali Pizzaro: excellent Marylou
Kali Pizzaro: so lets stick to building for a mo
Kali Pizzaro: anyone else got good examples of how they taught building
Claudia13 Rossini: nope…he was there to learn to build PERIOD….but starting with small items builds a base of knowledge for large builds
Kali Pizzaro: yep nods
Birdie Newcomb: so, knowledge is knowhow?
Kali Pizzaro: for me one of the biggest reasons for success was thinking carefully about why I wanted to use the VW and try to create from there
Kali Pizzaro: and keeping it simple initially
Birdie Newcomb: does that lead to know-why?
Kali Pizzaro: like it Birdie
Marylou Goldrosen: Start by repeating shapes-prims, some different sizes, choose a color scheme and make a sculpture. Students love to build –simple first –I agree
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t think that’s always true Birdie….sometimes knowing something can’t be of much help…if you can’t really use that knowledge in other then simple situations
Birdie Newcomb: I think of it as creating opportunities to learn
Kali Pizzaro: so even experiential learning, seeing the value helps and motivates
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Even when students can’t/don’t build, they can give very good feedback to a builder. We had them do that at Usher a few times.
Kali Pizzaro: but not always possible initially
Kali Pizzaro: sometimes later they see the value
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): and connections to distinct goals in the class…for my students “just go play” leads to disaster
Marylou Goldrosen: You can use the public sandboxes
Birdie Newcomb: When I first came to SL, a teacher of architecture did great buildings — but then realized he had to tear them down so that the students could do the learning
Claudia13 Rossini: i learn just because i’m interested…even if it might at the time have no practical value
Birdie Newcomb: Just looking wasn’t enough
Kali Pizzaro: yes Claudia but you are not being assessed
Kali Pizzaro: although that can be arranged
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): /me nods at Claudia and Kali….my students want results for their tuition
David Stack (richmedia): I haven’t “learned” much of anything about SL yet because I have no real “use” for it, other than attending these gatherings.
Marylou Goldrosen: Take pictures –put them on Flickr to share.critique
Kali Pizzaro: ok so what about induction for me that is crucial
Claudia13 Rossini: smiles…not in a learning situation in a school Kali….but people have strong opinions anyway
Kali Pizzaro: lol yes
David Stack (richmedia): I did learn that using a wheelchair is much easier than walking to navigate
Birdie Newcomb: Induction — like Sherlock Holmes?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): My students used the simulation and kept notes for the next class…it was more than merely looking. Then I added features such as “make it darker” or “add more hidden passages and traps”
Kali Pizzaro: inducting to the environment using SL
Marylou Goldrosen: In the arts, this place is great practice
Tray (tray.rivera): which type of “arts”?
Kali Pizzaro: yes i used their chat and notes to feedback and feed forward and let them reflect
Kali Pizzaro: Marylou tell us a bit more
Marylou Goldrosen: All kinds art — from sculpture to fabrics to installations
Tray (tray.rivera): Building arts? or the study of art?
Marylou Goldrosen: We even did costuming and filmed –screen capture simple scripts –students wrote
Tray (tray.rivera): nice
Marylou Goldrosen: Like the “Lizards of ARS”
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Playing with identity through the embodied avatar is also a learning process and reflective practice.
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Sounds interesting to be a lizard
Kali Pizzaro: was there anytime you thought mmm i could have done that a wee bit better? if so what did you change, Marylou?
Marylou Goldrosen: Yes, newbie students love to do a session on “horseplay!”
Kali Pizzaro: yes Fun i think is important for socialisation
Birdie Newcomb: Deconstructing was helpful, (and fun) — to trace back what I did as compared with what I intended
Kali Pizzaro: excellent Birdie
Marylou Goldrosen: We can always do it better –differently !
Claudia13 Rossini: Kali, though i’m obviously not trained, and possibly not good at it….i do teach in building that a chair has a lot more too it then a few prims, it can also have function, style, grace, history…i try to teach about understand what it is you are seeing
Kali Pizzaro: yes extremely important Claudia
Kali Pizzaro: as we can see all around us
Claudia13 Rossini: smiles
Kali Pizzaro: great builds give us all lots of pleasure
Birdie Newcomb: Building in SL helped me to see what a marvel building a RL house really is.
Birdie Newcomb: And it’s so much cheaper…
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): and lousy builds don’t give us lots of pleasure
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me winks at Claudia
Claudia13 Rossini: i think good builds give you better immersion in VW’s
Marylou Goldrosen: Agree –they don’t really know what to look for? I get them to look closer the details and the different symbolic meanings
Praxislady Witt: @Claudia, how long did your students take to learn to be avatars, plz?
Kali Pizzaro: ohhh interesting question
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): /me is helping rebuild a farmhouse…yes, Birdie…SL teaches the wonder of RL builds too
Claudia13 Rossini: the av i taught was already well beyond the noob stage….
Kali Pizzaro: so that is important know your students current experience and build on that
Praxislady Witt: my experience, the better they know how to function as an avatar the more seamless their other learning becomes
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): good spaces inspire us. I don’t know why some don’t get that IRL or here when they say “you could use be globes of light or talking heads”
Claudia13 Rossini: though av age hardly matters i think…the fundamentals of building can be taught to a newbie or an oldie like Griz
Marylou Goldrosen: Yes– even kids playing the Sims2 don’t realize the houses they build need good foundation AND NEED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER or house burns down
Kali Pizzaro: right Praxi so you mean learn to use SL then concentrate on the curriculum
Kali Pizzaro:
Tray (tray.rivera): learning is part of the curriculum
Praxislady Witt: yes, I guess that is it
Kali Pizzaro: exactly but have a bit of fun, feel comfortable before
Beth Ghostraven: In the online course I took, it was a couple of weeks before some people could manage their avatars well enough to meet at all
Kali Pizzaro: is kind of what i mean Tray
Marylou Goldrosen: I learned initially by being mentored and then mentoring others –another simple way
Tray (tray.rivera): yes
Kali Pizzaro: as in learn but don’t think to much about it
Praxislady Witt: once their awareness of their AV becomes second to the other functions being taught
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Beth, what age group? And what problems did you see at first?
Kali Pizzaro: yes Marylou that is important and letting the students help each other
Beth Ghostraven: teachers, not sure of age
Marylou Goldrosen: I meet with students once a week at university – who need help and then the class meets once a week online
Beth Ghostraven: just the usual SL learning curve/cliff
Kali Pizzaro: ok so let’s look at some of the things then that did not go so great as a teacher then we can turn to those who have been taught
Tray (tray.rivera): did they use the same viewer?
Beth Ghostraven: the teacher met with some of the students in RL to help
Kali Pizzaro: and please give the solution as well not just the challenge
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Beth, my students got short orientations and pre-made avatars..it went well, in the last two classes. The one-on-one orientations REALLY help
Kali Pizzaro: or if you still have an outstanding challenge
Kali Pizzaro: so for me i made the mistake of putting “click here” above a sign and not “click the sign”
Claudia13 Rossini: lol
Kali Pizzaro: many said nothing is happening when i click “click here”
Kali Pizzaro: seemed obvious to me but i have been here a while simple but…..
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Kali….experience is often the best teacher
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Don’t ever send US college kids out with a mission to “just explore” – my big mistake at first
Beth Ghostraven: @Iggy, good idea
David Stack (richmedia): I went to accessibility island (correct name?) to learn more about SL. Found it very challenging to read signs that were to the right and left of the path I was on. Didn’t know how to turn my head/gaze without reorienting my whole avatar.
Birdie Newcomb: I did a build and expected to have visitors, but I didn’t find a good way to publicize it in SL.
Marylou Goldrosen: Yes –Virtual Ability Island has lots of tutorials and helpers
David Stack (richmedia): Found it rather challenging to navigate.
Kali Pizzaro: yes David learning how to use the camera is important
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @David, I hope to add things to Usher such as parts where they must use mouselook
David Stack (richmedia): My guess is that people are usually given some coaching before starting Virtual Ability Island (thanks for the correct name ML)
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Rich….something i’ve had to remind other builders of….to step back and be a new av again
Beth Ghostraven: camera is still a challenge for me; playing Caledon Quest in SL is helping
Kali Pizzaro: yes Birdie it is not a case of build and they will come
Graham Mills: Last year I experimented with join.me so students can see my screenme which lets students see in realtime what’s on your screen
Kali Pizzaro: got to let folk know it is there in an ever changing huge fluid world
Kali Pizzaro: ah Graham good one i like that
Birdie Newcomb: And I didn’t know how to “game” it to get people involved
Marylou Goldrosen: How does Caledon Quest –Roleplay work?
Kali Pizzaro: I also forgot to tell them how to make a window bigger
Graham Mills: well, it does give them a chance to see some of what is going on though they can’t see the keyboard
Graham Mills: and it adds to lag
Beth Ghostraven: It’s not really roleplay, it’s traveling around to search for medallions, based on clues
Kali Pizzaro: so if i was showing an xray in a notecard it opened really small
Kali Pizzaro: i went back and thought carefully about how i would interact if i was new – like Claudia says
Claudia13 Rossini: Kali…i often remind newbies that SL is often like any program on your computer….look for the same things…copy, paste, drag a corner to enlarge…
Kali Pizzaro: yes and the great thing is that it goes both ways
Kali Pizzaro: i have had some students who have done that in sl first time then said now i know how to do in other programs
Kali Pizzaro: tah da
Claudia13 Rossini: laughs
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Ahhh Claudia, good use of successive approximations to make new users comfortable
Kali Pizzaro: ticked the teach IT at same time as transferable skill box
Claudia13 Rossini: it just seemed obvious to me, luckily…that programs probably used the same basics
Kali Pizzaro: ok so how about folks who said they were taught
Kali Pizzaro: what did you find hard or frustrating in anything you were taught
Kali Pizzaro: and how did you solve – was it the teacher or other students
Beth Ghostraven: I didn’t have the hardware to run SL at first, had to drop the class & retake it later
Birdie Newcomb: I find that being taught, say, in a sandbox, takes me too long because of lag (can’t be because of me…)
Claudia13 Rossini: i still remember the man who taught me to link prims….in simple language, step by step
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Groupwork at a distance with unknown classmates was a challenge
Beth Ghostraven: working in a small group w/ the teacher in SL really helped
Tray (tray.rivera): was never taught how to link
Birdie Newcomb: Though sandbox is better than sitting and listening to a powerpoint talk
Claudia13 Rossini: see me after class Tray
Tray (tray.rivera): okay Thank you
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Skill levels varied, but used all manner of tools to develop concepts then try em out
Marylou Goldrosen: Funny episode –stay away from haunted houses, or lose part of your body –even if it is a reward for hard work — proves even harder to find.
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): co-construction with guidance helped projects emerge
Birdie Newcomb: beware halloween mua-hahaha
Karelia Kondor: knowing how to ‘take turns’ in speaking with voice .. without body language to indicate you would like to speak and with lag so you don’t know if someone has finished
Kali Pizzaro: excellent so you learned from you fellow students Delight
Kali Pizzaro: yes Karelia that can be challenging in text too
Birdie Newcomb: Oh, the power of texting over voice
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Yes Kali, strengths became evident via small groups and larger whole classes
Birdie Newcomb: If you miss something, you can look it up
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Karelia….however chat can be a plus in that regard…if you write it out…you tend to learn to simplify and say things clearly
Kali Pizzaro: yes so reflection with chat logs is great especially when teaching things like history taking or clinical decision making
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Group calls were helpful to avoid lagging conversation
Karelia Kondor: yes – texting is simpler, but as this current experience shows .. it can lack sequence .. a bit of a challenge even for bright people!!
Marylou Goldrosen: I constantly have to search for technical answers on the Web and constantly tell students to do so too
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): right…for writing classes, chat logs are key to transforming the informal work into more formal prose
Karelia Kondor: ahhh .. group calls have less lag?
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Our professor would jump from group to group call to assist
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): seemed to have less lag
Karelia Kondor: thanks
Kali Pizzaro: so group calls can be good but you need the shekels to create the group
Marylou Goldrosen: Interesting — never thought of group call
Claudia13 Rossini: Skype
Kali Pizzaro: and make sure you have enough folks to start a group
Birdie Newcomb: takes two
Kali Pizzaro: yes or use Skype in the background
Karelia Kondor: can you easily add latecomers to a group call, or do you have to start a new group call?
Kali Pizzaro: mmmm good Q
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Skype, Oovoo, and Google Hangout is great for back up too
Kali Pizzaro: think you need to start again
Kali Pizzaro: yes DLight
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Don’t think we had to restart calls
Kali Pizzaro: Graham can you explain how you put a google doc in SL?
Karelia Kondor: thought so . that was my problem when I tried to use them to keep the group together when in places without voice / or with people who were not in the teaching group
Kali Pizzaro: group voice call is good if you tp about
Kali Pizzaro: on a field trip
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): whole class is a challenge in a group call. Great for field trips!
Graham Mills: gDoc? On Media on a Prim (MOAP)? Set sharing appropriately
Karelia Kondor: field trip – yes – a succinct way to describe the situation!
Kali Pizzaro: mmm do you have a wee step by step lol
Claudia13 Rossini: lol
Kali Pizzaro: keeps it private too Karelia
Kali Pizzaro: you don’t need to put here Graham – i am just fishing lol
Karelia Kondor: yes – good idea .
Claudia13 Rossini: exactly what i said earlier about teaching…simplifying something complex into steps
Kali Pizzaro: ok we are almost done
Kali Pizzaro: what is you top tip for smooth introduction for getting started in SL for your students
Kali Pizzaro: i created a video with screencast – oh – matic – how to get started in sl and gave them all a copy
Claudia13 Rossini: that they are all on the same viewer
Graham Mills: screenr is good too
Kali Pizzaro: yes Claudia wooooo
Kali Pizzaro: then in the lab
Karelia Kondor: Kali . is it available anywhere or is it private?
Tray (tray.rivera): doesn’t everyone need to be using the same viewer?
Graham Mills: that certainly helps, Tray
Kali Pizzaro: it is private at the moment but i can give you although i had to put my real date of birth lol
Claudia13 Rossini: nope Tray…not once they know how to use SL
Karelia Kondor: (I am starting about 10 next week …. was thinking of doing something like that this weekend
Tray (tray.rivera): but for introduction purposes
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): we usually have learners using different viewers
Karelia Kondor: that would be great Kali
Karelia Kondor: I promise I won’t tell!!!!!!
Kali Pizzaro: IM me your email
Kali Pizzaro: although it is not cleaned up as i did it on my lunch break and sound like Darth Vadar in parts
Karelia Kondor: thanks!
Claudia13 Rossini: for introductions..it will save you a world of problems if everything is in the same place on the screen
Birdie Newcomb: Question — do you do classes that are simultaneously in the same room/computer lab — or a specified time and sim?
Tray (tray.rivera): I can’t problem solve different viewers, though
Kali Pizzaro: i give them a link also to get straight to class
Graham Mills: I guess the basics carry over between viewers but debugging issues in a viewer you have never used is tough
Birdie Newcomb: Anybody.
Kali Pizzaro: yep Graham
Claudia13 Rossini: i’ve done both Birdie
Birdie Newcomb: How do the two methods compare?
Beth Ghostraven: cool!
Kali Pizzaro: ok folks we are done
Marylou Goldrosen: Thanks for the tips –Great Meeting!
Claudia13 Rossini: about the same in the end…except with a lab, you tend to all have SL working and the same viewer….but it’s not always practical
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): cheers all!
D’lightful (delightful.doowangle): Great to see everyone
