VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable October 4, 2012
Topic: Patterns and Creatorverse
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hello everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable! Our topic today is “Patterns & Cretorverse! Say WHAT?”
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We will focus on Linden Lab’s two new products
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and what they *MAY* mean for educators
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting in TEXT CHAT, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can begin with my take on this, as well as the Lab’s videos about the new products
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at http://iggyo.blogspot.com/2012/10/patterns-and-creatorverse-speculations.html
Josain Zsun: Can I pay in Bitcoin?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m Joe Essid, Writing Center Director at the University of Richmond. I’ve finished a semester with students using immersive literary build based on Poe’s “Fall of the House of Usher” in Jokaydia Grid. You’ll find a version in SL too,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks to the goodwill of Kali Pizzaro and Glasgow Caledonian University.
Claudia13 Rossini: (lol)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A bit about this group, if you are new to VWER:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The VWER meets each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour and is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our group has met every week for over three years and we get a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly rezzed.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The transcripts can be found at our newly updated web site – http://www.vwer.org
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr and Koinup groups and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Now, let’s begin as we always do, and introduce ourselves.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): And if you are new to VWER, let me know!
Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia….still a builder
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, Virtual Assistant, Georgia Gwinnett College
Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, PhD (English), Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development. Grandma.
Beth Ghostraven: Beth, middle school librarian in Virginia
Josain Zsun: Justateacher in Tucson
Karelia Kondor: Helen Myers, UK Secondary school teacher of languages
Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, Oregon State University, social and immersive media manager
Wrenaria Antiesse: /me has been less virtual than usual lately though, unfortunately. Busy, busy, busy….
Beth Ghostraven: Josain, there is no such thing as “just” a teacher
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): other intros?
Devorah Corvale: Debora English professor at Folsom Lake College, home sick today so I could come
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): whispers: anyone here for the first time?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): dang keyboard. Anyone here for the first time?
Josain Zsun: After being called that twice by parents lately, I’ve come to believe that.
Loris Talon: Loris Talon Manager in an italian software company
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Lynne – facilitating the art of learning English in weird and wonderful ways.
Beth Ghostraven: nope, Josain, don’t believe it
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): any more intros? If not..going once
Karelia Kondor: welcome Loris and Lynne!
Oronoque Westland: sorry, I was eating…Roberta Kilkenny, Africana Studies, Hunter College, City Univ of NY
Lynne (yt.upsilon): This is my first time here.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): going twice….
Claudia13 Rossini: Jos…Plato was ‘just a teacher’
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): SOLD to everyone wearing basic black!
Praxis (praxislady.witt): haha, Educator and freelance consultant
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Okay, first, welcome to Lynne, our first time visitor. Usually we ask new visitors if they’d like to speak first, and I will give Lynne that chance in a bit
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but before that
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Say yes or no: Have you heard of Patterns and Creatorverse before this meeing?
Oronoque Westland: heehee…speak first if we don’t count Iggy
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): *meeting
Karelia Kondor: no
Claudia13 Rossini: nope
Oronoque Westland: heard a teeny weeny bit
Wrenaria Antiesse: no
Beth Ghostraven: only from you at the last VWER mtg
Loris Talon: no
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Not before the IM.
Claudia13 Rossini: glanced at your link then promptly forgot everything
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Okay, the basics then
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Linden Lab has been hinting for a LONG time that they are engaged in
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): new ventures…and here they are!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Creatorverse is an iPad app aimed at kids, it SEEMS
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): a creative app for making and animating art and such in 2D and sharing it
Praxis (praxislady.witt): Kids??
Josain Zsun: /me wondering how they will get tier out of kids on iPads
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Patterns is more like Minecraft
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 3D content creation and also sharing, using what seems to be a new engine separate from SL
Oronoque Westland: talk about reinventing the wheel
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): at my blog link you can see both in action: http://iggyo.blogspot.com/2012/10/patterns-and-creatorverse-speculations.html
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Josain, the same way Farmville & its kin make bundles of money off kids
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We’ll get to that issue
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but first, Lynne, tell us what brought you today. Are you using SL with students? Thinking about these new apps?
Lynne (yt.upsilon): It seems the diff between Minecraft and Patterns is the physics.
Claudia13 Rossini: Iggy, now that i remember…it looked a lot like kiddy stuff, basic shapes, primary colors….does it create anything more complex the colored paper?
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I guess LL have learnt a lot from SL.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): “It’s you universe to shape” seems to be the new version of “your world, your imagination”
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Oh sorry – q – Why am I here. Well I use SL with my visitors, and I’m always interested in new stuff.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Rod Humble, the CEO, speaks of “Shared Creative Experiences.” What is the first impression of the group?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): OF these new products?
Josain Zsun: They already exist in other Brands.
Claudia13 Rossini: (more useless c***)
Oronoque Westland: to be honest, since my target audience is all grown up, I don’t see myself using them
Beth Ghostraven: Building looks simpler in Patterns than in SL
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): /me grins at Claudia, expecting just that answer from her
Claudia13 Rossini: laughs
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I wish they would focus on making SL better, instead of reinventing what others are already doing.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I’d be more interested in the Creatorverse app, than Patterns.
Oronoque Westland: /me repeats her earlier comment — talk about reinventing the wheel
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): How simpler, Beth? I do see how the physics of objects looks improved there
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I could see P may be of interest to school teachers – esp the physics / geometry tie in.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Creatorverse looks like fun though.
Grinn Pidgeon: I have not seen the videos of either, but maybe they will learn something from them that they can bring to making SL better. (skeptical)
Beth Ghostraven: It looks like you don’t have to rez just a shape, it has some properties to it already
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Josain, you noted the similarity to other apps (unhold that thought now)
Josain Zsun: But, I might be able to slip these past our district’s uncertified, semi-professional IT…
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I agree with Grizzla though. But maybe – to be generous – stuff they learn developing other apps etc could be brought into SL at a later date.
Beth Ghostraven: They look more like they’re for kids–virtual fancy Legos
Wrenaria Antiesse: /me just watched the vids
Josain Zsun: Both videos were deja vue all over again with other virtual apps that have been around for several years.
Grinn Pidgeon: Ah, physics but no sex?
Wrenaria Antiesse: reminds me of little big planet…
Claudia13 Rossini: exactly my thought Beth
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Patterns requires STEEP systems reqs, and my system won’t run it
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): my iPad 2 will run Creatorverse fine
Beth Ghostraven: That’s a huge disadvantage for schools
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): agreed on Patterns, but my wife said “YES!” about iOS and Creatorverse
Josain Zsun: Guss that leaves my original iPad out
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): they are gradually replacing laptops with iPads in her county for K-5
Oronoque Westland: if the target audience for patters is youngsters, how likely is it the youngsters would have the hardware necessary to run it?
Claudia13 Rossini: it seems to me LL would like a ‘hit’ in the younger demographics…..since SL is for us ‘older’ folks
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Oro, that is a great question. WHat are the reqs for Minecraft? Anyone have the link?
Beth Ghostraven: Creatorverse looks just 2D
Oronoque Westland: What are the system requirements?
• CPU : Intel P4/NetBurst Architecture or its AMD Equivalent (AMD K7)
• RAM : 2GB
• GPU : Intel GMA 950 or AMD Equivalent
• HDD : At least 90MB for Game Core and Sound Files
• Java Runtime Environment (JRE) 6 or up is required to be able to run the game.
• CPU : Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 (K8) 2.6 GHz
• RAM : 4GB
• GPU : GeForce 6xxx or ATI Radeon 9xxx and up with OpenGL 2 Support (Excluding Integrated Chipsets)
• HDD : 150MB
• Minecraft Release 1.2.5 or newer. Older versions will need to be
Oronoque Westland: updated to current versions
• Java (Java SE 6 Update 32 or Java SE 7 Update 4 or newer is preferred)
• Please note that some users experience issues playing Minecraft while using a mismatched version of Java for their operating system (32 or 64 bit), while using certain versions of Java 7, or while multiple versions of Java are installed
Wrenaria Antiesse: or that cut and paste works too lol
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Thanks, Wren. There are both PC and Mac versions of Minecraft?
Oronoque Westland: thisis from the Minecraft page — “A computer with the minimum requirements should be able to play Minecraft. ”
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Patterns has both Mac and Windows versions, but not Linux
Claudia13 Rossini: (sure, we’ve all been the ‘minimal requirements’ route)
Josain Zsun: From a network security point of view, I never was a Java or Flash fan
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Yes, it says that on SL’s wiki too and we all know what minimum specs means when running SL.
Claudia13 Rossini: lol YT
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): it is odd that Patterns has such steep system Reqs
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Physics will do that.
Wrenaria Antiesse: minecraft can run on mac os or linux, but not as easy to get installed as on windows
Oronoque Westland: Iggy, remember you are talking about LL
Wrenaria Antiesse: windows is the only one with a straight forward open-the-exe file
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): /me holds his side laughing at Oro’s reminder “true”
Claudia13 Rossini: Iggy, considering the typical coding patterns of SL….it doesn’t seem odd at all…..just lots of poorly written code
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): A general biz principle is that it’s easier & cheaper to keep a customer (who will bring you new customers if they’re happy) than to get a new one. I keep scratching my head at the things LL is doing to try to expand its customer base, while continuing to P-O and drive off the ones who have loved SL for its uniqueness.
Claudia13 Rossini: good point Grixxy
Josain Zsun: /me continues to wonder at LL marketing
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): So tell me, how would these two projects hurt SL? They could also be ways to generate new revenue streams
Beth Ghostraven: They don’t seem to have any connection to SL at all, except for the same developer
Oronoque Westland: for me, as a univ educator, I would see the value if they were a stepping stone to SL or OS…but otherwise they are too “childlike” for my students
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): since tier is a dead end: LL is losing 1000 sims every 11 weeks, one of Au’s sources reported recently
Claudia13 Rossini: my bet is that they wont last, the new products
Josain Zsun: I see them as separate markets
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I think they are already hurting SL, simply because LL is pouring energy into them instead of into SL.
Wrenaria Antiesse: they arent directed at the same market
Josain Zsun: /me agrees with Grizz
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): If these new products succeed (which seems unlikely), LL will be even less likely to improve SL. And if they don’t succeed, LL will have lost what it invested.
Oronoque Westland: just curious, how many of us here teach K-5?
Karelia Kondor: (what age is K5 please?)
Karelia Kondor: (sorry, I know I always ask this question!)
Oronoque Westland: sorry, 5-10
Claudia13 Rossini: about 10=11
Praxis (praxislady.witt): @Oronoque, bet your students play Farmville )
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Ages 5-9?
Karelia Kondor: thanks
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I live Farmville. FOUR RL tractors woof woof
Beth Ghostraven: lol
Wrenaria Antiesse: hehe
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but a serious question about Farmville and the like
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): what are the educational applications of such experiences?
Claudia13 Rossini: hey Kali
Lynne (yt.upsilon): K5 teachers are so brave.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): howdy Kali
Kali Pizzaro: hey all
Oronoque Westland: would SL users be attracted to these new things for their kids or grand-kids?
Beth Ghostraven: /me waves
Claudia13 Rossini: all i can think is geometry (sp)
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Is Minecraft used for more than team building and fun?
Praxis (praxislady.witt): /skills, why not start early?
Josain Zsun: Jokay thinks so
Oronoque Westland: team building is very important
Kali Pizzaro: agree
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Collaborative learning is a skill set in its own right.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): true, as it fun. But keep in mind the tyranny of Standard of Learning
Beth Ghostraven: yes, important to business but not in the standards, like Iggy said
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): my wife cannot introduce anything new unless it is tied directly to SOLs
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Beth knows this well
Praxis (praxislady.witt): using child like games is less imtimidating for all beginners
Beth Ghostraven: Yup
Beth Ghostraven: Even if you’re allowed to you don’t have time
Kali Pizzaro: however what about HEI – Higher education
Oronoque Westland: if we were not talking about LL, I would wonder why “invent” something that in many ways already exists and why have high end tech requirements when targeting the children’s market
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Which is why Nancy said “Creatorverse could work. It looks easy to use if we can find an SOL link”
Claudia13 Rossini: because they don’t think things through
Oronoque Westland: ahem
Beth Ghostraven: Creatorverse could fit w/ shapes, and graphic organizers maybe
Praxis (praxislady.witt): or because developers are not in sync to their target audiance?
Beth Ghostraven: but it’s probably an expensive way to go
Oronoque Westland: @Praxis, for those wanting to bring students or clients into SL we need childlike in terms of simplicity, but not looks
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): You’d need the iPads. Patterns costs $9.95, btw. No word on Creatorverse pricing
Claudia13 Rossini: well look at the advertising on the SL web page. it’s all sex oriented….not outright…but it certainly looks like sex to me….how can you sell a VW to the masses if your market is so narrow
Praxis (praxislady.witt) attended a Gamification class and what LL is doing is what the concept advises?
Kali Pizzaro: however as one of my bosses said – learning curve – pah they are here to learn
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I stupidly bought Patterns before checking the minimum reqs XD
Beth Ghostraven: That’s silly–Patterns is cheap, but the equipment needed is expensive
Josain Zsun: If I had to invest in gamer systems, I would then use existing Virtual Worlds
Oronoque Westland: $9.95 for the software, but $3,000 for the PC
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): LOL Oro!
Karelia Kondor: !!!!
Beth Ghostraven: Iggy., maybe that’s what they’re counting on
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I can understand why they are diversifying though.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Adding to what Claudia says – I hate going to the main SL page because it’s always women in lingerie or bikinis or whatever. Not a way to impress educators that SL has educational value.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): If they allow people to develop these apps, who knows what could emerge.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): There is this crazy assumption in game designer land. It’ s like “Oh we have a new tire that’s great! You just need to go buy a newer car to use it”
Claudia13 Rossini: but they aren’t doing anything NEW….
Kali Pizzaro: yyeah I try to get folk straight to our main island – although i remind the students that this is a world where all things happen
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, not doing anything new – whereas SL is still, in many ways, a unique thing.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): on the record, women in lingerie are fine by me, but Grizzla’s right. The direction of SL is clear from the marketing now. Different audience than these two products
Oronoque Westland: @Kali, that is like teaching in NYC
Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Griz
Kali Pizzaro: yep we have a campus in the city so…..
Beth Ghostraven: I’m with Grizz–when I open the SL viewer it goes straight to Search, with all 3 levels checked so it looks like porn on first glance
Josain Zsun: Women in lingerie or bikinis? I need to login more
Oronoque Westland: ahem
Beth Ghostraven: lol
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Jos
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Beth – yes, and that’s the case, even if your account is G-rated
Wrenaria Antiesse: ohhhh boys….. :p
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Marketplace is an eye-opener, Josain. Even I blush if I have all ratings checked
Beth Ghostraven: yes, it is
Karelia Kondor: yes Grizzla ..
Kali Pizzaro: i know i am late so sorry if this has been answered who do you think patterns is aimed at? Or is it a case of i
Kali Pizzaro: who can make it
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Patterns could be aimed at older learners, Kali
Kali Pizzaro: sensible in an education sense
Kali Pizzaro: eh
Karelia Kondor: I had hoped that by my students having G accounts they would not see all that!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): the same group as Minecraft
Praxis (praxislady.witt): @Grizzla, looked at a sim once rated PG and a tight fitted women worrier threatened to “kill us” for being there and not knowing the sim owner put it up for sale? Me looked at 1st life and photo, desc of 2nd grade teacher? She got mad when I pointed that out, hmmm\
Kali Pizzaro: sorry not very well framed
Beth Ghostraven: It seems like patterns is aimed at rich kids ages 4-12
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t really care about the nearly naked women, yawns, but really, there is so much more to offer in SL
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Praxis “Women worrier”? (grin)
Karelia Kondor: ㋡
Kali Pizzaro: indeed @Claudia
Beth Ghostraven: haha that’s awesome!
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I would think P is aimed at the same demographic as Minecraft.
Kali Pizzaro: maybe again we need to think what can it do and how would it enhance student learning etc
Kali Pizzaro: that is what a lot of folks did with SL
Kali Pizzaro: there was no blueprint
Praxis (praxislady.witt): @Iggy, yep, she was when she realized what happened, heehee
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Yes, and unless Patterns offers something really exciting and new, how can it succeed?
Claudia13 Rossini: and i’m sorry, if someone is turned off by the sex…..get a life and change the channel…….but you can’t close the eyes of the funding people that sex is the selling point here
Josain Zsun: Or as my admins would say “How is that going to improve their test scores?”
Kali Pizzaro: we need some clever person to come up with a fantastic use
Josain Zsun: Ask the kisds using Minecraft for the fantastic use
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I argue in my post that Creatorversei is something new and clever and for the right audience, a good idea. The mobile application makes me wonder what else LL may have in mind later.
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Beth Ghostraven: @Claudia, it doesn’t really bother me, but I’d hate for my coworkers or administrators to have that as their intro to SL
Kali Pizzaro: my point exactly
Claudia13 Rossini: exactly Beth
Oronoque Westland: what some RL students wear on campus makes me blush, but I remind myself that it is just one more learning experinece…ahem
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Kali Pizzaro: and that is just the teachers
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): You cannot let them see that part of SL, or your students, right away
Claudia13 Rossini: we are given no choice…scantily clad women or nothing
Lynne (yt.upsilon): It’s only pixels.
Josain Zsun: /me wonders if NY is to far to visit Oro’s campus from Tucson
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Lynne, that’s not a good answer.
Oronoque Westland: nothing as in no clothes?
Kali Pizzaro: but sometimes it puts folk off
Beth Ghostraven: It’s not really in our control–if they look at SL on their own they see what’s out there
Oronoque Westland: I always use slides to demo SL to non-SL folk
Karelia Kondor: it does not make it easier to sell in a secondary school context
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Our admins won’t buy that answer, period. It’s porn to them, even if it is “just pixels.” It’s one reason I do not use SL except for canned simulations with premade avies. The students do not even own their accounts now
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Porn is also “just pixels”
Kali Pizzaro: i tend to record snippets as folk want to know (like most things) how are you using it
Karelia Kondor: hard enough to sell the sl experience without having porn to contend with!
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Everything is just atoms.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): and increasingly, I will do that with OpenSim. But you all know how much I despise Linden Lab. I won’t go there.
Kali Pizzaro: behave Iggy
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Unemployment is not just atoms
Claudia13 Rossini: wait, Iggy hates LL….i never knew
Kali Pizzaro: ok so……
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): back to our apps
Oronoque Westland: /me passes the jug to Igster
Josain Zsun: And they love you just as much Iggy…as soon as you stop paying tier.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Employment is slavery.
Claudia13 Rossini: i simply don’t see much point to the new apps Iggy, it’s not like there aren’t thousands out there
Lynne (yt.upsilon): There are 1000s of apps, but many are really badly made.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Do we think that they could be the impetus for something better in store for SL?
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I think there’s room for well crafted ones.
Claudia13 Rossini: remembers Jos is newly homeless, offers him a grocery cart
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I don’t think so at all.
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t believe so Iggy
Kali Pizzaro: i think all companies tend to diversify
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I am an optimist, so I’ll say yes.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): As I said, if these new ventures don’t succeed, LL has more financial problems. If they do succeed, LL will have even less motivation to improve SL.
Kali Pizzaro: and maybe they will learn from the other
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I do wonder if we might not, as a result of Patterns, see better SL physics
Kali Pizzaro: platforms
Kali Pizzaro: etc
Kali Pizzaro: beat me to it Iggy
Beth Ghostraven: The physics don’t seem to be the problem with SL, the $$$ is
Grinn Pidgeon: I’m sure it’s not lost on them that we are more and more a mobile technology world and they are sticking their big toe in the water
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yeah, people aren’t leaving SL because of the physics
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m not buying any new cars though. Sim crossings are a nightmare, still, on the mainland
Oronoque Westland: we already have challenges getting our gaming generation to use SL…what will happen when the youngsters who use the better physics, etc., of the new stuff are then dragged into SL?
Beth Ghostraven: Organizations are leaving sims because of the cost, and consumers can’t always afford the equipment to run SL
Kali Pizzaro: yeah the money is the problem which actually is about amount of academics using if all where using VW
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me is not even sure she has ever been to the mainland…
Kali Pizzaro: then the money is a pittance
Beth Ghostraven: There’s a mainland??!?
Kali Pizzaro: compared to other VLE
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Oro, you have to tell them “in any environment with an old physics engine and user-made content, don’t expect Call of Duty or Elder Scrolls”
Claudia13 Rossini: you wouldn’t like it Beth, like a series of very ugly malls
Beth Ghostraven: It’s one thing to get poor results with old equipment, but with SL you get *no* results
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): My students did fine with it, just as they would with the right orientation to Minecraft. After all, that game is blocky and pixelated yet wildly popular
Beth Ghostraven: Claudia, do they have free stuff?
Oronoque Westland: @Iggy, would your college students use Minecraft?
Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t use ‘free’ stuff…..my experience is, you get what you pay for
Karelia Kondor: true @Iggy
Praxis (praxislady.witt): as for other grids being more cost effective? yes for now but like the ATMs cost will continue to creep to SL level (not anytime soon that is)
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Oro, if I could connect to the course, yes. A couple play on their own for fun
Oronoque Westland: ok
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me pokes Claudia and whispers, “…except for the pocket psychopath av, which was free…”
Lynne (yt.upsilon): SL is a bit of a victim of its earlier success.
Claudia13 Rossini: nice point YT
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We have about 10 minutes left. Any issues we have not addressed about Patterns or Creatorverse?
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me presses button to repeat recorded message: “OpenSim is free like a puppy.”
Beth Ghostraven: Question: why should we care?
Lynne (yt.upsilon): I think it’s now a cash cow, and we all know what happens I’d need to play with them.
Oronoque Westland: Is Creatorverse collaborative or gated?
Loris Talon: will they be free?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Agreed, Lynne. The Hype era and LL’s founders made SL seem like “the next Internet”
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Patterns seems to be $10. for life.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m reading Cory Ondreka’s article about user content now, “Escaping the Guilded Cage”
Kali Pizzaro: think we need to remember that VW are more than Sl )although i still like it best)
Lynne (yt.upsilon): well I think VWs are the next internet. but not nec SL.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Me too Kali.
Kali Pizzaro: but not got to much experience of others so maybe not qualified to say
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Sorry Iggy – I do like SL.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): /me agrees with YT
Praxis (praxislady.witt): same here Kali )
Beth Ghostraven: Iggy didn’t say he didn’t like SL, just LL
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Oh sorry – I don’t mind LL either.
Kali Pizzaro: I actually love the education folk but i love all the other fab people i meet
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): You want to see the utopian ideas from the early days of SL, have a look: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=538362
Lynne (yt.upsilon): But I missed all the upheaval of a couple of years ago.
Oronoque Westland: Is Creatorverse collaborative like SL or is entry restricted?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I think, Oro, that it’s single “player” but Patterns is not. Both let users share content socially
Beth Ghostraven: me too; there was an article in the Washington Post last weekend about the economics of virtual worlds
Kali Pizzaro: good
Josain Zsun: SL is still my hub for forward thinking creative people in education. It’s just they are moving forward into better alternative VW and getting harder to find.
Lynne (yt.upsilon): It seems you have the choice as to whether to share your creations.
Praxis (praxislady.witt): @Lynn, you did not miss much before 2009′s change, heehee
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Do you have a url for it, Beth?
Beth Ghostraven: let me look
Kali Pizzaro: @Josain but they still keep coming back
Josain Zsun: but t random, rare times
Kali Pizzaro: sure although if major event you usually find them
Kali Pizzaro: (oh how Iggy must love the spell check in this version )
Kali Pizzaro: cough
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Kali, MS Word and my cavalier attitude save the day on that
Oronoque Westland: how attractive is “single player” for educational adaption?
Lynne (yt.upsilon): My exercise books were always single player.
Oronoque Westland: adoption*
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We used single-player Sim City 2000 Oro, in my writing classes
Beth Ghostraven: @Grizz, I’ll have to look when I get home; I saw it in the print edition of Sunday’s paper
Josain Zsun: How does a single player collaborate?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): teams worked on one city, and they compared their results to what they had read about urban planning
Oronoque Westland: but your exercise book didn’t require a $3,000 pen
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): you sit around a PC or tablet and vote, take notes, take pictures
Kali Pizzaro: MM not sure about single player very collaborative constructivist approach to learning in UK
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): The students loved it and got into friendly debates about what to do with their cities
Kali Pizzaro: fab
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so you can use single player well (this was in 1992)
Josain Zsun: But… “How is that going to improve their test scores?”
Oronoque Westland: seems to me that a collaborate world can also be used by a single player, but not vice versa
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): LOL you in K-12 figure that out, Josain
Kali Pizzaro: sure again what are you going to do with it – if you have a good sound plan
Beth Ghostraven: Oh thanks, Iggy!
Beth Ghostraven: lol
Kali Pizzaro: then maybe lots of things can worl
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): pedagogy leads the tech, as we’ve often said here
Kali Pizzaro: work
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Good point Oronoque. That said you can buy very expensive pens.
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Chimera Cosmos: whew – thought I’d never get here
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Any final questions?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Hi Chimera!
Chimera Cosmos: Yeah. How wa Petra Kali???
Claudia13 Rossini: at a point test scores become meaningless….i’m more concerned with will they be able to use what they have learned after school
Kali Pizzaro: fantastic
Chimera Cosmos: You lucky dog.
Kali Pizzaro: Jordan is amazing country
Praxis (praxislady.witt): agree Claudia *nods head*
Grinn Pidgeon: I’m going shopping for a little black dress @ The Azure Dragon
Lynne (yt.upsilon): Unfortunately by the time most people realise this it’s too late Claudia.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We are at our stopping point, but I’ll hang out a bit longer!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): thank you for coming today! Next week…
Kali Pizzaro: eh
Beth Ghostraven: Thanks Iggy!
Kali Pizzaro: think it is me
Claudia13 Rossini: too true YT
Kali Pizzaro: theme TBA
Chimera Cosmos: I’m gonna see Kali again in iRL tomorrow.
Kali Pizzaro: for next week
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Looks like an open forum next week!