VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at www.vwer.org.

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable, December 6, 2012

Topic: Tell Santa: What Simulation Do YOU Want in STEM, the Arts, Humanities or Social Sciences?

Photos by Grizzla. Please join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!
Iggy: Hello everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable! Our topic today is “Tell Santa: What Simulation Do YOU Want in STEM, the Arts, Humanities, or Social Sciences?”

Iggy: This is a public meeting in TEXT CHAT, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.

Iggy: I’m Joe Essid, Writing Center Director at the University of Richmond. Last year I used an immersive literary build based on Poe’s “Fall of the House of Usher” in Jokaydia Grid with my literature students. You’ll find a version in SL too,

Iggy: Thanks to the goodwill of Kali Pizzaro and Glasgow Caledonian University, I’ll use that build next semester for a first-year class!

Iggy: A bit about this group, if you are new to VWER:

Iggy: The VWER meets each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour and is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Iggy: Our group has met every week for over three years and we get a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly rezzed.

Iggy: The transcripts can be found at our newly updated web site – vwer.org

Iggy: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.

Iggy: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr and Koinup groups and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer

Iggy: Now, let’s begin as we always do, and introduce ourselves.

Iggy: Don’t be shy–type away

Zotarah Shepherd: I am working on an MA in Education Technology at Sonoma State University in northern California. I finished all my classes. My Thesis project: Teaching and Learning Life Awareness & Success Skills in Virtual Worlds.

David Stack (richmedia): Hi, David Stack, Deputy CIO, UW-Milwaukee

Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, PhD (English), Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Instructional technology.

Delenn Daines: Judy Kelly, Biology Dept Henry Ford community college, dearborn MI

Grizzla: Chris Robinson, Georgia Gwinnett College, metro Atlanta

Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson – board of regents, university system of georgia

Beth Ghostraven: Beth O’Connell, middle school librarian (ages 11-14), Virginia, US

Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, Social and Immersive Media Manager at Oregon State University.

Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, publisher and book geek

Stephen Xootfly: Greetings. Stephen Gasior, Ph.D., Instructor in Biology at U of New Orleans. I’ve taught nonmajors in Second Life and Founder of Biological Interactive Objects for Science Education.

Tori Landau: Patricia Dean, volunteer owner of the former international schools island, renamed moonstone, and event coordinator for the open university’s sims, Deep Think.

Iggy: okay, so about the topic

Iggy: we have lots of great simulations in SL and Open Sim

Iggy: our own Theorists’ project by AJ and his colleagues

Iggy: Vassar’s Sistine Chapel, etc. etc.

Iggy: but so many have gone or never been imagined so….

Iggy: let’s go through the disciples, starting with STEM.

Iggy: What would you ask Santa for as a simulation in STEM?

Iggy: and why?

Birdie Newcomb: I think I saw life on Mars somewhere, didn’t i?

Grinn Pidgeon: What is STEM again?

Iggy: NASA had a Martian surface simulation at one point

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes I went to Mars sim long ago.

Iggy: Science, Tech, Engineering, and Math?

Grizzla: science tech engineering math

Grizzla high-fives with Iggy

Tori Landau: i was at a Mars simulation, recently, not NASA, encountered a dust storm while riding a buggy

Iggy: I’ll put in the old SLURL for the Space Park, which may be moved now

Birdie Newcomb: how about the innards of a computer?

Delenn Daines: I would want a display with atoms and molecules

Delenn Daines: and chemical reactions

Birdie Newcomb: do we have the Higgs Boson yet?

Grizzla: There used to be at least two builds where you could walk through a computer’s innards… I wasn’t able to find them when I re-looked recently.

Grinn Pidgeon: Oh, now that we gave up our land, a faculty member in business would like to find a farming simulation (business doesn’t really fit in any of the disciplines, I guess)

Zotarah Shepherd: I have seem Math displays too mostly geometry and the funny Pi Display at the Splo Sim

Tori Landau: University of Ulster used to have a massive innards of computer display, not been there for a while though

David Stack (richmedia): protein docking would be cool.

Grizzla: Right, Ulster was one of the ones I tried to find again recently

Stephen Xootfly: A climate change simulation. I do believe SciLands has a glacier melt simulation, but more stuff showing effects on species’ survival or human habitats

Beth Ghostraven: Extension Services has a State Fair sim here that has lots about agriculture

Grizzla: Yeah, Extension has some very good stuff

Grizzla: Though you have to be more than an SL noob to use a lot of it

Iggy: Dell had the walk-through computer, but they left SL

Birdie Newcomb: Yes! the future history of the Earth

Birdie Newcomb: Or alternate futures

Zotarah Shepherd: I liked the Biology ride through body parts too. Like a Fantastic Voyage

Stephen Xootfly: Are there human body field trips other than the Ohio State U, sperm development?

Iggy: If you know of a simulation that fits any requested…please put in the SLURL for the transcript. Consider yourself Santa’s elf!

Delenn Daines: I would like to recreate the history of the universe and life

Zotarah Shepherd: I have seen interactive Archeology digs too. I am sad the Egyptian builds are gone and Heritage Key.

Birdie Newcomb: Oh, the Fantastic Voyage — was that here?

Delenn Daines: it was a sim from Arizona that was very good

Iggy: We’ll get to Heritage Key soon..you’re right

Annie Obscure: I’ve GOT an interactive archeology dig

Stephen Xootfly: Nova Sauders at Indiana university

Zotarah Shepherd: No it was just the feeling of it Birdie.

Annie Obscure: I’ve shown it to various people

Grizzla: Thinking about IT… while I miss the walk-through computers that used to be here, they were quite outdated even when I first explored them a couple years ago

Birdie Newcomb: Jurassic Park?

Iggy: Is the Space Park still around?

Zotarah Shepherd: Genome has Science too

Stephen Xootfly: Nova Saunders at Indiana University of Pennsylvania had a nice one in SL. She has recreated it and more on our opensim servers. wiki.bio-se.info click Nova Saunders

Birdie Newcomb: Can SL physics handle a black hole?

Grizzla: I would love to see a build that makes computer networking & cloud computing more “tangible” to students

Zotarah Shepherd: Coral Reef on Biodome Not sure it is still there

Iggy: So much comes and goes

Zotarah Shepherd: U of Washington

Beth Ghostraven: Expedition Central has dozens: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/VSTE%20Island/15/153/765

Stephen Xootfly: BIOME is gone. But Clowey Greenwood is part of BIO-SE as well and has her own grid.

Tori Landau: Spaceport UK is still about… think might have been there in a skybox I saw the mars simulation: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Star%20Beach%20Island/78/195/22

Beth Ghostraven: There oughta be an index of these somewhere….

Annie Obscure: Grizzla, at one time I had a thing that showed the android app lifecycle on my land.

Tori Landau: it has good educational resources

Zotarah Shepherd: I need to explore again. One of my favorites is SL Botanical Gardens.

Iggy: Other simulations in these disciplines? I’m hearing a few, to recap: Martian surface, computer simulations for hardware walk-through, teaching about the Cloud

Tori Landau: yes, it is lovely Zo

Iggy: Fantastic voyage through the human body

Iggy: Protein docking! I love that concept for a simulation

Annie Obscure: We’ve still got the walking tour of the human visual system, as long as our SL campus stays up

Birdie Newcomb: I saw a wall display of the history of the Earth — but not a simulation

Iggy: Farming…I could show you all IRL But we don’t have that in SL now.

Annie Obscure: the extension service used to have farming

Grizzla: Extension service still has a number of farming modules – although some would be a challenge for newbies to maneuver.

Claudia13 Rossini: (he just wants help shoveling….manure)

Iggy: We had one mention of OpenSIm..any more there?

Iggy: and yes, Claudia, unless you prefer killing copperheads in my RL barn with me

Grizzla: I do think we need to keep looking at ed builds that take the best advantage of what you can do virtually, that you couldn’t do IRL. So wall displays… still can be useful, but don’t need a VW in order to have them

Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to see Open Sims that can be used by all schools for their classes. It would save expenses and promote collaboration in education.

Tori Landau: ok, been checking, it is Spaceport uk that has the living on mars simulation: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Star%20Beach%20Island/91/201/426

Iggy: Thanks, Tori

Birdie Newcomb: how about a simulation of the Space Station, with zero gravity

Annie Obscure: one thing about opensim – I know our campus has been visited a lot, we’re moving to OpenSim, one disadvantage of that is that we won’t be publicly accessible

Iggy: I’m wondering how Zero G would work here in SL, like a swimming hud?

Zotarah Shepherd: I think you’d need a whole grid to change the physics Birdie. That would be fun.

Iggy: Annie, will the content be available via hypergrid?

Annie Obscure: actually, you’d just need something like a swimming hud

Iggy: I’d moved Usher to OpenSim until Kali offered me space here again, where I’ll teach with it next smester

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes a animation of weightlessness though we could use “Fly” to do that.

Annie Obscure: no, we can’t hypergrid because we’re breaking the protocol

Birdie Newcomb: I did see something recently on approaching the speed of light — looked interesting

Annie Obscure: we want to do some things that the SL protocol can’t handle

Annie Obscure: mostly around shared media -

Iggy: Annie, will guests be able to create accounts? That’s one reason I chose Jokaydia Grid

Birdie Newcomb: how do you mean Annie?

Grizzla: Annie, I was talking to a researcher yesterday who said the same thing – they use SL for some things in STEM, but have to use other resources too due to SL’s physics limitations

Annie Obscure: we’d like to do things like have in-world feedback about how a student’s doing

Annie Obscure: that has to be private and customized per-student

Iggy: So…Santa wants to know! Other STEM simulations? Or shall we talk about the Arts?

Annie Obscure: so we need to know who’se requesting the web page

Annie Obscure: so our viewer ‘signs’ it’s requests

Iggy: In the Arts, I’d like a build of the Amory Show. Does one exist?

Annie Obscure: that way, when I look at the ‘how are you doing?’ board I see my own grade, not yours

Birdie Newcomb: or Monet’s garden

Iggy: Great idea, Birdie. I miss the Frank Lloyd Wright Museum, too

Zotarah Shepherd: Me too Iggy I think they (the FLW people) shot themselves in the foot by insisting it be removed

Birdie Newcomb: You might have to create your own system, then, Annie

Iggy: One issue with some arts builds is it’s a “go and look” approach. I’d like to have it interactive, to try to, say, build something in Wright’s style or try Rothko’s techniques for colors

Grizzla: Art-related: I was sad to discover that the Vietnam War Memorial in SL is gone.

Birdie Newcomb: O, I missed that

Zotarah Shepherd: Is Grid-on-a-Stick still useable?

Annie Obscure: we concluded that long ago

Claudia13 Rossini: i think our biggest loss was the Van Gogh exibit

Iggy: Very much art, Grizzla. Do you know why it left SL?

Iggy: @Claudia, yes. That was sad to hear.

Grizzla: I don’t know exactly – but a year ago when I was there, I met one of the builders…

Grizzla: He said his company no longer did SL builds, that he hardly ever logged in anymore – I think they felt VWs would not come out of the “trough of disillusionment.”

Claudia13 Rossini: i think that’s the best thing i ever saw in SL

Iggy: what of the Van Gogh village simulation in SL? That is still around I think.

Birdie Newcomb: SL allows some creativity not otherwise possible

Zotarah Shepherd: Kestral Karas made an awesome interactive Art Theory build on WIRED sim

Kali Pizzaro: i saw i think it was Dream Realizations – a few weeks ago

Iggy: Grizzla, I hope they are wrong (another topic).

Kali Pizzaro: totally bizarre but fun

Iggy: So other arts builds?

Birdie Newcomb: Burning Life, fer sure

Grizzla: Well, Gartner’s 2012 Hype Cycle chart shows VWs emerging from the “trough”

Kali Pizzaro: dancing pigs or something

Kali Pizzaro: yep Grizzla

Iggy: Keep in mind Burn 2.0, Birdie

Iggy: That will continue, Grinn?

Claudia13 Rossini: (note to self, wear pig av and dance for Kali)

Annie Obscure: Santa can bring me a simple way to debrand V3.0

Kali Pizzaro: Santa coulld bring a way to have a edu entrance to Sl without all the adverts for ……….

Grizzla note to self: ask Gentle Heron to wear cabbage av, to dance with Claudia

Stephen Xootfly: Santa can bring me an important corporation or brand moving into SL or other VWs . . .

Iggy: Santa needs to focus on arts, now, Kali. Here’s your bag of coal.

Claudia13 Rossini: oh lord yes Kali….

Stephen Xootfly: Or major museum.

Tori Landau: BURN2 is actually having more events, including on Sat 15th Dec, so hope that is a good sign

Iggy: That is, Tori! I’d like to see more gallery shows of the sort I went to in 2008-9

Kali Pizzaro: yes I saw that seems to still be a lot of arts projects/builds on the go

Iggy: but maybe that is me

Annie Obscure: Santa can bring me vehicles in OpenSim

Iggy: and not SL

Iggy: SOOOOOO since Kali asked: what about simulations in Health?

Kali Pizzaro: I would like to see more people create interactive virtual anatomy and interactive health information simulations – these can and have made a difference to peoples health in the VW and the physical world

Iggy: I’d like a body-mass simulation. Avatar eats and does not exercise, and puts on weight

Kali Pizzaro: (findings of my PhD)

Claudia13 Rossini: eyes Iggy

Kali Pizzaro: so far

Zotarah Shepherd: My sim wishes do not really fit the parameters of those subjects but….

Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to set out or rebuild my Gardner’s Multiple Intelligences build again somewhere. Also other concept builds like Jackie Rexen’s Maslows Needs Build and Thursday Xu’s Bloom’s Taxonomy build.

Kali Pizzaro: mmm blooms

Tori Landau: Imperial college london if still about, a friend of mine worked on it.

Kali Pizzaro: yes it is, but not enough interaction i think

Kali Pizzaro: health builds often need people

Kali Pizzaro: or ways to ask or confirm

David Stack (richmedia): In southeast WI there is an interinstitutional project

Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to find ways of making builds more interactive.

David Stack (richmedia): that has been granted $100K for developing patient avatars

Stephen Xootfly: Second Health is active still.

David Stack (richmedia): for IRL treatment. Its not in SL

David Stack (richmedia): https://ctsi.mcw.edu/news-events/news/ctsi-awards-875000-for-new-pilot-projects/

Kali Pizzaro: or it to be interactive like the virtual simulation or NY healthcare

Kali Pizzaro: autism

Kali Pizzaro: scenario

Iggy: excellent to know that, David.

Tori Landau: Ann myers medical centre.. it was 1st medical place I saw and was impressed that it had saved lives

Stephen Xootfly: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Second%20Health%20London/127/220/25

Kali Pizzaro: I think Second Health is I saw Dave Taylor on recently

Kali Pizzaro: think ann myers is struggling

Iggy: If virtual worlds do leave the Gartner Trough, I have a feeling it will be through health and security simulations

Birdie Newcomb: Is there a way of seeing what an autistic person or a paranoid person sees? That would be educational

Kali Pizzaro: i tried Virtual patients 4 years ago frustrated to not get it further

Zotarah Shepherd: I liked the Psychologist builds. Virtual Hallucinations

Grizzla: I love the concept of Virtual Hallucinations – the experience of schizophrenia, but it’s another of those builds where it was a mistake to build it to scale.

Grizzla: It’s “tight” to maneuver in, and especially so for a newcomer. I’d love to have sent our students there – but they would have been really frustrated as beginners.

David Stack (richmedia): Iggy: could be. on a gartner webinar today they said they

Kali Pizzaro: yes in the NY healthscape island

Kali Pizzaro: Birdie

David Stack (richmedia): expect MOOCs to crash into the trough and emerge as

Stephen Xootfly: I’ve often been surprised at the lack of psychology simulations and studies.

David Stack (richmedia): something else that will be “MOOCish”

Kali Pizzaro: we have a cyberpsychology module which uses SL

Birdie Newcomb: Oh, I’d love that — cheaper than drugs

Kali Pizzaro: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Sedig/26/45/22 is where Virtual Hallucinations is

Zotarah Shepherd: I see a mashup of VWs and other MOOCs that will bring VWs to the front again.

Iggy: We can slip over into social sciences that way, since Neuroscience bridges multiple disciplines

Zotarah Shepherd hears an echo.

Iggy: What about such builds? What would you like to see in psychology, neuroscience?

Annie Obscure: we’ve got a working ecological theory of vision demo, but we haven’t actually used it

Kali Pizzaro: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/TriBorough%20New%20York/105/65/22

Zotarah Shepherd: Virtual Pioneers went to several Historical sites. I am not sure how many are still around.

Kali Pizzaro: there is also a breast cancer awareness place here

Kali Pizzaro: the slurl above and the autism scenario

Grizzla: I’m still heartbroken that Cupid’s Cove (Cuper’s Cove) is gone – historical build of the first English-speaking colony in Canada

Iggy: excellent thanks for the link

Zotarah Shepherd: I think that was on Health InfoIsland

Iggy: Any more “wants” in health, psych?

Annie Obscure: I’m constantly looking for medical ‘stuff’ -

Zotarah Shepherd: Maybe something that shows teen level classes the dangers of certain behaviors.

Kali Pizzaro: of course Mayo Clinic for talks

Iggy: A texting-while-driving simulation!

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Iggy

Annie Obscure: you know, instead of sitting around wishing, a group could get together once a week and build one of these

Iggy: My state is finally passing a REAL law to curb that stupid habit.

Kali Pizzaro: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/American%20Cancer%20Society/115/161/21

Kali Pizzaro: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Mayo%20Clinic/34/195/28

Claudia13 Rossini: i think we could get them interested in unprotected sex

Zotarah Shepherd: I’d be glad to build some of these ideas Annie.

Iggy: you could build simulations for those sorts of public safety and health issues easily here

Kali Pizzaro: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Western%20New%20York/107/27/26

hobbs Constantine: hobbs falls off the chair laughing @Claudia’s comment

Kali Pizzaro: this is the autism awareness centre

Zotarah Shepherd giggles

Annie Obscure: if people wanted to do that, we could do it in opensim and oar them off.

Iggy: LOL Claudia. I think SL could teach them a few things in that discipline.

Annie Obscure: I’ve got an instance we could use

Kali Pizzaro: Plymouth used to do a sexual health centre

Kali Pizzaro: where people could come anon

Kali Pizzaro: to discuss sexual health issues

Claudia13 Rossini: well they are teens….we know what we thought about then

Wrenaria Antiesse would be interested in collaborative building – sounds fun

Iggy: The fact that residents can use nyms really helps here, to discuss confidential issues

Zotarah Shepherd: I just reread A Tribe Apart and know so much is more dangerous for teens now days.

Kali Pizzaro: yes

Zotarah Shepherd: I love to build but would like to learn to do mesh first.

Iggy: so we have about 15 minutes for Social Sci and Humanities

Iggy: Let’s give Santa our lists

Iggy: I want something like Heritage Key’s Tut build back

Zotarah Shepherd waves her list to Santa who must be invisible

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Iggy me too

Iggy: http://rezzable.com/ for their site

Iggy: I have not visited their OpenSim builds for a while. Have any of you? They were working with Unity 3D as well.

Galileo Zeplin: there are already some pretty good historical reconstructions … like roma and renaissance island … but more would nice, covering a variety of eras, cultures, etc.

David Stack (richmedia): Just for the record, last week

Kali Pizzaro: yes

David Stack (richmedia): I mentioned that one of our profs

Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to see a hypergridable collection of grids – one for each core and elective subject open to all schools.

Iggy: Yes, with actors. I also miss the Virtual Globe Theater. What a great idea that was.

Birdie Newcomb: SL is not much good for reading — even plays are pretty awkward

David Stack (richmedia): is doing a class on digital story telling and role playing

David Stack (richmedia): as a creative writing course.

Zotarah Shepherd: I liked the Globe

Tori Landau: blinks, the globe has gone?

David Stack (richmedia): He’s using a WIKI not a VW

David Stack (richmedia): The syllabus is at http://www4.uwm.edu/schedule/syllabi/213246075.doc

Iggy: Long gone, Tori

Kali Pizzaro: what was the build about the man with aids

Iggy: So we have wish lists for historical builds, linked by the hypergrid or in SL

Iggy: and the sort of theater experience of the old Virtual Globe

Iggy: what else in Social Sci or Humanities?

Birdie Newcomb: or the Fillmore

Zotarah Shepherd: hypergrid would be better I think. Cost less and could be sponsored by grants.

Kali Pizzaro: more story or simulations that teach health or psychology sociology subjects would be good

Wrenaria Antiesse: have people tried the “new synthetic theater” ?

Claudia13 Rossini: in the end, what we really need is a ton of available prims and a nice pile of money to purchase and pay for sims and tiers

Iggy: There is a still a URL for the Globe: http://visit.slshakespeare.com/

Wrenaria Antiesse: i havent been there in awhile

Wrenaria Antiesse: but avatars become part of a drama

Wrenaria Antiesse: and moved through an experience as players

Zotarah Shepherd: I liked Dante’s Inferno and Moby Dick builds

Kali Pizzaro: nasa build was nice too

Kali Pizzaro: with walk like a astronaut

Zotarah Shepherd: Lit Alive builds were awesome

Iggy: How is the WW I Poetry project going?

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes that was awsome too

Galileo Zeplin: btw there is still a somewhat less sophistocated version of the globe theatre, over on renaissance island…i think some shakespearean plays will be performed there soon

Wrenaria Antiesse: New Synthetic Theater: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/ZoHa%20Islands%20E/82/226/22

Kali Pizzaro: i was there last week VW poetry

Iggy: And how is Virtual Harlem these days? I went to poetry readings there a few years back.

Zotarah Shepherd: Texas Women’s University exhibits could be expanded. The students have great ideas.

Zotarah Shepherd: I have not seen Virtual Harlem in ages.

Iggy: Cotton Club SLURL is still valid: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Virtual%20Harlem/130/82/30

Zotarah Shepherd: I have also not been to any NMC sims recently. Are they still around?

Iggy: So Santa has a LONG list! In our last five minutes…anything we missed from the wish list?

Zotarah Shepherd: There were several language learning sims too

Kali Pizzaro: full SL on the iPad

Claudia13 Rossini: an iPad….period

Zotarah Shepherd: I love the SL Libraries.

Birdie Newcomb: How aqbout Santa’s workshop at the North Pole — before the ice disappears…

Iggy: Keep wishing, Kali

Tori Landau: I’ve a question, are there any sims that teach maths?

Grizzla: It’s curious to me that you can (sort of) do SL on an iPhone or Android phone, but not on a Kindle Fire or an iPad

Zotarah Shepherd: HealthInfo Library is awesome

Iggy: I’d LOL Birdie, except that is a sad thing to consider. Yes, some simulations of sea-level rise would be helpful

Zotarah Shepherd: There used to be a few Math sims

Wrenaria Antiesse: Tori – Dream Realizations teaches math

Kali Pizzaro: lol sorry prof tut

Iggy: @Wren, SLURL please?

Wrenaria Antiesse: http://www.dreamrealizations.org/

Kali Pizzaro: ah that is where i was

Zotarah Shepherd: Math: Elon University, Math Playground on EduIsland, Natespace Art and Math is gone and Splo

Wrenaria Antiesse: Ute Frenburg or Cooper Macbeth are the avatars to talk to about that

Tori Landau: Many thanks Wren, using sl for maths teaching always seemed so obvious to me as my maths improved due to building

Iggy: noted that Virtual Montmartre is now next to Virtual Harlem

Wrenaria Antiesse: I am sure they’d happy give tours of what they do

Iggy: so it’s not all bad news in SL these days