VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable, January 3rd, 2013
Topic: Looking to the Future
Kali Pizzaro: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour. 7:30pm In UK, 2:30pm est
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 11 on the sim…not bad for a holiday break
Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Kali Pizzaro: This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript of what is said in local chat. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.
Kali Pizzaro: The transcripts can be found at our web site http://www.vwer.org – select the LIBRARY tab at the top.
Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable continues to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas. Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. If you are on Facebook, please
Kali Pizzaro: join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. https://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/
Kali Pizzaro: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr group and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer. you can catch up on our tweetchat at #vwer or look at the library area
Bet Inastri (betinaastride): 1st day at school in portugal
Kali Pizzaro: Tonight’s theme: Looking to the future
Kali Pizzaro: let’s start as we always do with introductions. I am Evelyn McElhinney RN, Lecturer in Advanced Practice and part time doctoral student at Glasgow Caledonian University in Scotland.
Kali Pizzaro: in nursing
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, Georgia Gwinnett College, metro Atlanta
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Joe Essid, University of Richmond English & Writing Center, teaching with virtual worlds since 2007. I run simulations based on Poe’s House of Usher in SL and Jokaydia Grid. Teaching again with SL next semester, thanks to the generosity of VWER’s Kali!
David Stack (richmedia): David Stack, Deputy CIO at UW-Milwaukee
Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson, board of regents, university system of georgia
Beth Ghostraven: Beth O’Connell, middle school librarian, not on break anymore, speaks horrible typonese
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): Nicole Miller, Mississippi State Univ. Asst. Prof, Elem. Ed.
Bet Inastri (betinaastride): Betina, primary teacher, portugal
Liana Hubbenfluff: I’m a science nerd from the US and adjunct at small ag college.
VRprofessor: Michael Granaas, Univ of South Dakota. Psychology
Kali Pizzaro: anyone else?
inssomnia: hi im from mexico and i have a video game educational project
Kali Pizzaro: going
Kali Pizzaro: going gone to the big yellow bird (mmm that sounds familiar)
Tori Landau: lol
Kali Pizzaro: ok so today, tonight’s meeting is a look to the future of education.
Kali Pizzaro: This might be one of the most interesting times
Liana Hubbenfluff: Oh there’s a future?
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Kali Pizzaro: that is a point Liana
David Stack (richmedia): Education just wants to be free
Beth Ghostraven: There’s always a future; the question is, what kind of future?
Kali Pizzaro: nods
Kali Pizzaro: David can you elaborate – I assume you are talking about moocs etc
David Stack (richmedia): I was just parodying the old saw about information wanting to be free
David Stack (richmedia): However, I think the public may be coming to view education as another free good available over the Internet.
David Stack (richmedia): They might be right.
Liana Hubbenfluff: hm interesting conundrum
David Stack (richmedia): But there is always the certification issue. Which is a different topic.
Kali Pizzaro: yes we will get to that in a mo
Beth Ghostraven: There’s that saying: You get what you pay for
Beth Ghostraven: or what *someone* pays for
Liana Hubbenfluff: but do employers know that?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I wonder how good that “Free” will be
Beth Ghostraven nods
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): “free like a puppy”
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): I think it depends on the field
David Stack (richmedia): As Beth says, someone will be paying
Liana Hubbenfluff: lol Grizzla
David Stack (richmedia): Don’t know if that will be the student or not.
David Stack (richmedia): Kind of like health care, which is another topic.
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): For example…in education, I am finding that principals are less interested in hiring teachers from online programs than f2f (face to face) ones
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but I’m at a school where parents pay a lot so the child gets a vetted degree for the job market and a traditional college experience–that is increasingly an experience for a minority of wealthy Americans
Beth Ghostraven: People are skeptical of non-traditional degrees and training; like diplomas that you can buy
Liana Hubbenfluff: yes I think so Iggy
Liana Hubbenfluff: I would bring up another topic too: industry paying for students’ education and then hiring them
Liana Hubbenfluff: I think they do this in Germany?
Beth Ghostraven: I hadn’t thought of this before, but does that practice influence the education they get?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): In the States, too, for older students. They get reimbursed based on their grades–an A means 100% reimbursement 😀
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but they are already employed
Kali Pizzaro: really?
Liana Hubbenfluff: Ooo I like that. Get reimbursed based on your grades. hmm
Kali Pizzaro: so can i bring you back to a point made by Iggy – if we move towards a free online education model (to an extent, ie cost for certification) does this actually make on campus education more elite
Liana Hubbenfluff: Ooh I would think so
Beth Ghostraven: It does if online education is perceived as inferior
Beth Ghostraven: I don’t see how a MOOC with 1 professor and thousands of students can be valuable for certification at all, because the students’ work isn’t being evaluated by the professor
Liana Hubbenfluff: well that depends on marketing really.
David Stack (richmedia): Heard on NPR that the average student prep time for the GED is 18 hours.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Kali, it already is in the US. Look at the top schools, the Ivies and the liberal arts schools. The big state universities are where the biggest changes are taking place. They are probably the most afraid too
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): oh wow
Liana Hubbenfluff: It’s up to the student and employer what is “valuable” and acceptable I think
David Stack (richmedia): On the other hand, students with GEDs are much less successful
David Stack (richmedia): than those who go through a full 4 years of high school.
David Stack (richmedia): So, certification by itself must not be sufficient for success.
Mia (praxislady.witt): me thinks online is needed for those in rural areas and those who work during the day ?
Beth Ghostraven: Yes, Mia; & online maybe needs to be made more rigorous
Liana Hubbenfluff: I wonder if it’s really about proof of skill and proof of knowledge
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): well and also…now there are not only paper writing services, but services that will take an entire online course for someone
Mia (praxislady.witt): @Liana, student or educator, plz?
Beth Ghostraven: or if, by attending a good college, you develop good academic habits and traits that help you later
David Stack (richmedia): Are there intangibles in the high school or college experience that certification and proofs of skill will never measure?
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Beth: employer decides right?
Liana Hubbenfluff: maturity?
NicoleM (ncl.wozniak): @David…I think so…
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): In Virginia, Mia, Old Dominion U is doing something like that, but with students going to local spots for a live teleclass with the prof, who is on screen and mic
Beth Ghostraven: there are intangibles in the *every* experience that certification and proofs of skill will never measure
Liana Hubbenfluff: Remember, education has been about factorizing the masses right? But we don’t need that now. *think desks in a row facing the teacher
David Stack (richmedia): well said!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): a neighbor is studying welding and basics of electrical work that way, with live helpers for the labs
Mia (praxislady.witt): gosh, anyone here from Penn State? A friend attends teleclass with 8000 other students?
Mia (praxislady.witt): how is that measured plz?
Liana Hubbenfluff: I attended one with 70k
Liana Hubbenfluff: talk about intimidation
Liana Hubbenfluff: tests and quizzes graded by students attending the course
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): these ODU classes are small–about 25–and the teacher answers questions via Skype
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but he probably teaches 10 a semester
Kali Pizzaro: How did you feel about that Liana?
Liana Hubbenfluff: It pushed me!
Liana Hubbenfluff: I wanted to do better. Competition…
Liana Hubbenfluff: also they had a great forum set up
Kali Pizzaro: yeah Iggy I would say that is just another way of delivery not different?
Beth Ghostraven: I can see the value of the ODU-type classes–that takes advantage of distance things while still keeping rigor
Liana Hubbenfluff: certificate only at the end
Kali Pizzaro: So the feedback and collaboration was important Liana?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): It’s a way to get rid of expensive and tenured faculty, IMHO, too
Beth Ghostraven: I don’t see how fellow students could grade anything indicative of higher-level thinking
Mia (praxislady.witt) nods head at Iggy’s comment
Kali Pizzaro: Peer assessment is a recognised assessment tool
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so color me skeptical with right-wing pols here praise MOOCs to the heavens. It’s not the Barlow dream about information wanting to be free.
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Kali: oh yes, feedback really important; I saw this course as just familiarizing myself with the topic so I could go further
Kali Pizzaro: although usually summatively assessed by a lecturer/professor
Kali Pizzaro: so the first step Liana and that is important
Liana Hubbenfluff: it has an important role yes
Liana Hubbenfluff: esp for people without access
Beth Ghostraven: @Kali, it’s that last part that’s lacking in MOOC classes
Kali Pizzaro: as nothing done in the classroom, or wherever is the final learning
Liana Hubbenfluff: oooh the real test is Real Life
Beth Ghostraven: @Liana yes
Beth Ghostraven: I think the issue is not whether f2f or virtual is better; I think the question is: can we use virtual means to help students who can’t attend f2f classes for whatever reason
Liana Hubbenfluff: What do university presidents think about the online courses? Do they see population increasing as being solved by this? They’d have to build more dorms for example. More classrooms
David Stack (richmedia): Is this meeting f2f or virtual?
Kali Pizzaro: it will be interesting to see how they pan out, of course George Siemens vision of the MOOC may differ http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/
Beth Ghostraven: virtual
Kali Pizzaro: but with the feeling and social conventions of f2f – no?
Liana Hubbenfluff: Is there a test after this meeting? !!!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I do wish Sam Chester were here. Wasn’t Arkansas trying to replace her and other writing teachers in their community college system with an automated system that included testing? That’s when I get worried.
Liana Hubbenfluff: ew Iggy!
Bet Inastri (betinaastride): f2f = face to face? (sorry the question!)
Liana Hubbenfluff: f2f yes beti
Beth Ghostraven: especially trying to teach writing!!!
Kali Pizzaro: So what do we do ignore technology and hope it goes away?
Liana Hubbenfluff: only if the sun blows up
Kali Pizzaro: I think not
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Kali, never, but you put pedagogy before cost savings or tech
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): then pick the right tech to best serve your students and their needs
Kali Pizzaro: yes and that is the key is it not
Liana Hubbenfluff: Oooh Iggy. I see what you are saying
Beth Ghostraven: Iggy, that’s how it should be…
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): thus a MOOC is great for personal enrichment
Liana Hubbenfluff: The culture chooses pedagogy, cost savings, or tech?
Kali Pizzaro: sometimes the use of technology is driven by many things, distance etc
Kali Pizzaro: flexibility
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but tenured faculty should fight them as replacements for small classes for credit, again, IMHO
Kali Pizzaro: an acceptance that people learn differently now?
Mia (praxislady.witt): @Kali, yes, finally, students do learn differently :))
Beth Ghostraven: I think a MOOC could be good for some kind of credential, similar to certification in a computer language
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): sure…distance can lead us to pick technology over f2f. That can help students learn who cannot come to campus
Kali Pizzaro: Steve Wheeler discusses this in a recent blog post – is tech making us smarter http://steve-wheeler.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/are-we-more-intelligent.html
Liana Hubbenfluff: What is the value of education? And who values it? A culture that needs trained workers…how will online teaching change their valuing I wonder
Beth Ghostraven: So far (and this is mostly our audience) we’re only talking about college education
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Liana, it’s a balancing act, but pedagogy should be in the lead over tech for its own sake or lowering costs
Kali Pizzaro: well i am talking about higher education which is different in the UK from college (further education).
David Stack (richmedia): me/ agrees with Iggy but rarely sees the needs or requirements drive the tech selection, even in boring old IT systems.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m old fashioned. I’d cut all vocational programs at the undergrad level at four-year schools, including business, and teach critical thinking
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): we need flexible thinkers more than narrowly trained ones. They can acquire many job-specific knowledge on the job
Beth Ghostraven: OK, Kali, I forget–what is college/further education and what is higher education in the UK?
Beth Ghostraven needs a crib sheet
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) needs a better keyboard
Kali Pizzaro: college more vocational/training higher edu degree and post grad
Beth Ghostraven: OK
Beth Ghostraven: so cosmetology school is college in the UK?
Liana Hubbenfluff: I love pedagogy but I think I am in the minority. Most people just want a job.
David Stack (richmedia): I’m amazed at how many local voc training outfits have “university” in their name.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): hotel management, etc. I’d cut but Liana I am a curmudgeon
David Stack (richmedia): “University” is becoming a generic term – like kleenex.
Kali Pizzaro: yes Beth
Liana Hubbenfluff: Did you see on PBS last night about how a town in Oregon is supporting the education of making wine…what’s that called …um Vitaculture?
Liana Hubbenfluff: the whole town is doing it WITH the local university
Beth Ghostraven: interesting!
Mia (praxislady.witt): so, sorry *scratches head* how do we as educators develop skilled workers for corporations and businesses plz?
David Stack (richmedia): Now that’s a town/gown partnership
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): these are wonderful programs…granted. I will be taking a welding class myself soon. But they don’t belong at four-year schools.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Mia, our jobs are not to feed the corporations. Our jobs are to educate students who can think critically, write and speak well, and know science and art.
Mia (praxislady.witt): in the US, Community 2 yr colleges provide many of the skilled worker classes
Kali Pizzaro: yes Mia but for higher paid jobs a degree at least is required unless you are a genius
Liana Hubbenfluff: School of Wine Trains Students for Wine Industry Jobs (PBS Newshour) http://video.pbs.org/video/2322539272
Liana Hubbenfluff: sorry about the advertisement
Liana Hubbenfluff: Community College connecting students to potential employers
Mia (praxislady.witt): yes, Liana
Liana Hubbenfluff: and the whole town is in on it, with restaurants, and wine tasting places downtown – tourism
Kali Pizzaro: i don’t think anyone is arguing that college has its place
Kali Pizzaro: not everyone will go to or will need to go to uni
David Stack (richmedia): There are jobs, and then there are careers. Some people may just want the former.
Liana Hubbenfluff: well that training is face to face!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Liana, it’s a wonderful role for two-year programs. I just want the four-year degree to emphasize learning over job credentialing
Liana Hubbenfluff: Yes but what is really going to happen?
Liana Hubbenfluff: That’s what I wonder
Liana Hubbenfluff: Everyone is cost conscious
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m shocked, as a Humanist, more by scientific illiteracy than by lack of writing aptitude for instance
Liana Hubbenfluff: yes! I agree Iggy…scary
Kali Pizzaro: here is a question for us to ponder by Steve Wheeler: Is technology actually a threat to good learning, creating a generation of superficial learners, or do interactive tools such as social media and search engines provide us with unprecedented access to knowledge?”
Beth Ghostraven: Will higher-level thinking become the province of the wealthy?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): ironically, the Sciences have so benefited from educational tech
David Stack (richmedia): Kali, I’d say yes to both
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Kali: technology is a tool; how it is used is what is important
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Beth, it will be the province of the ruling class, to be sure
Beth Ghostraven: I agree, David–so much depends on the learner
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Beth: oh that’s bad…yikes
Beth Ghostraven: It doesn’t have to be, but it might…
David Stack (richmedia): @Beth, I think it may also be the same person at different times.
Kali Pizzaro: Beth do you have a comment to make about how information literacy plays a part in the use of technology?
David Stack (richmedia): I think we probably all waste time and skim things thanks to tech
Liana Hubbenfluff: but we know that we don’t want just rich kids in school *omg!
Kali Pizzaro: yes and that might be ok at times David
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Kali, it’s the big question. I worry but then realize my students think differently. To them the phone is a really smart friend they can ask for information when stuck. In my case, I call on my geeky ability to memorize what interests me or just lie.
Kali Pizzaro: depending what we want to find out
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Rich: skimming yes, bad habit and we all know it is
Beth Ghostraven: I think info literacy is absolutely critical in using technology
Liana Hubbenfluff: yes Beth!
Beth Ghostraven: That’s what makes tech work for us
David Stack (richmedia): Unfortunately, anything called “literacy” sounds boring to learn.
Beth Ghostraven: Being able to evaluate sources of info, for one thing
Kali Pizzaro: so is it that, that helps us get to Iggy’s critical analysis etc
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): yeah.we need a better word, David
Liana Hubbenfluff: Critical thinking rocks in my world
Liana Hubbenfluff: But how to get it in schools?
Beth Ghostraven: Librarians!
Liana Hubbenfluff: I’d like to see philosophy in grade school
Beth Ghostraven grins
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): savvy instead of literate?
Beth Ghostraven: yes, Grizz, that’s a good way to put it
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I have called it “your can of whoop ass” in my first year classes
David Stack (richmedia): The library, isn’t that the place with the new coffee shop
Liana Hubbenfluff: well you have to be literate first maybe
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): they love the metaphor of opening a can that solves the problem, gets them the answer
Mia (praxislady.witt) wonders if jargon or words applied to similar process and practices in education should be neutralized?
Liana Hubbenfluff: @Prax: good luck
Beth Ghostraven can’t say “ass” in middle school
Liana Hubbenfluff: well you could….
Kali Pizzaro: Mia you might be interested in this blog http://edtechnow.net/
Liana Hubbenfluff: just in the right sentence
Mia (praxislady.witt) chuckles at Beth’s comment
David Stack (richmedia): You could say it once.
Liana Hubbenfluff: oh good…more links please
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): LOL Beth true. I wish I could stop mine from F-bombs in public
Liana Hubbenfluff: on this subject
Beth Ghostraven nods
Kali Pizzaro: http://popenici.com/
Kali Pizzaro: ok so folks we have five minutes left
Beth Ghostraven frantically adds sites to her Diigo
Liana Hubbenfluff: me too!
Kali Pizzaro: I have been a little cheeky with today’s topic as
Kali Pizzaro: you may know AJ
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): cheeky as usual
Kali Pizzaro: has in his madness (wisdom) asked me to take over
Kali Pizzaro: as the Executive Director (Joe must have been to busy hehe)
Kali Pizzaro: joking
Liana Hubbenfluff: You doing great Kali…we sort of took it over from you ^^
David Stack (richmedia): Hope the title comes with a salary to match.
Liana Hubbenfluff: We all want to know where education is going, but I think it’s a HUGE subject
AJ Brooks: we doubled her salary
Kali Pizzaro: cough
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Joe got to write-um chapter for anthology Ev is in Edit too
Kali Pizzaro: 0 =0
Beth Ghostraven: Yes! Congratulations again, Kali!
Kali Pizzaro: so
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): AJ too
AJ Brooks: w00t
Mia (praxislady.witt) claps for Kali :))
Liana Hubbenfluff: another huge subject (and I have to read the past transcripts) is what is happening to SL?
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): She’s a natural leader
Kali Pizzaro: the reason we chose this and made it more about the further of education
AJ Brooks: S-What?
AJ Brooks: lol
Liana Hubbenfluff: Where we are sitting
Liana Hubbenfluff: hahahah
Liana Hubbenfluff: Not much mesh here I see
Liana Hubbenfluff: hm
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) is wearing mesh
Kali Pizzaro: per say is we want to change the focus a little to be about any education not just VW
Mia (praxislady.witt): if it wasn’t for SL, others going to open grids would not be as knowledgable on the environment, me thinks :))
Liana Hubbenfluff: Oh Grizz is wearing mesh! congrats!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) agrees with Mia
Beth Ghostraven does too
David Stack (richmedia): Makes sense.
Kali Pizzaro: most weeks will have some sort of tech approach
Kali Pizzaro: so what do folks think of that? a more open group about education with a bit of a focus on tech
Kali Pizzaro: including VWs
Mia (praxislady.witt): got my vote!!
Tori Landau: Good idea
Karelia Kondor: yes!
Beth Ghostraven: I”m up for whatever you want to discuss
AJ Brooks: As you know, you have my full-throated support
David Stack (richmedia): Sounds like the way the group has been trending already.
Kali Pizzaro: i think it is this platform and the community that is important and the rest of the committee agree
Kali Pizzaro: so sounds like you folk do too
Kali Pizzaro: we will also be approaching or looking for folks to present their teaching or research
Liana Hubbenfluff: Maybe a list of platforms and software that is useful in teaching online? or in VW?
Mia (praxislady.witt): good Idea, Liana, as long as it is from VW out to RL??
Liana Hubbenfluff: yes sure
Kali Pizzaro: either for peer review in a safe environment or as a this is what i presented recently
Kali Pizzaro: more on that later
Mia (praxislady.witt): so many of RL tools have impacted thinking regarding what benefits VW education?
Kali Pizzaro: so thanks again everyone and especially Joe (Iggy), Chris (Grizzla) and AJ (AJ)
David Stack (richmedia): Thank you too!
Liana Hubbenfluff: Yes thanks all. Thinking again on the subject and will do some reading. Thx for links!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Well, thank you, Ev (Kali)!
Beth Ghostraven: Yes, this has been interesting and thought-provoking, as always–thanks!
Mia (praxislady.witt): great session and more good stuff to come, woot