VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable, January 10th, 2013
Topic: Mobile Apps for Second Life
Photos by Sheila Yoshikawa and Grizzla Pixelmaid. Please join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Hi everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Before we start today’s discussion, here’s some basic info about VWER meetings:
Grizzla Pixelmaid: This is a forum for virtual worlds issues that are important and relevant to education.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We meet every Thursday on the virtual campus of Bowling Green State University, from 11:30-12:30 pm SLT.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: (SLT = Second Life Time, which is the same as U.S. Pacific time).
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We’ve met every week since March 2008.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Please note: Roundtable discussions are held in TEXT chat, not voice chat.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Each week we get a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly-rezzed.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: If you’re new to VWER meetings, be aware that the text chat sometimes runs at a dizzying speed.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: If you make a comment or ask a question that isn’t acknowledged, don’t be shy to say the same thing again – or IM me and I’ll find a break so I can make sure your important question/comment is addressed.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: This is a public meeting, so we keep and publish a transcript of the local chat log.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Transcripts from all previous meetings are at our website: http://www.vwer.org – select the LIBRARY tab at the top.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We have some groups you are welcome to join!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Check out the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group in Second Life and our group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/?ref=ts&fref=ts
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Follow us on Twitter @VWER, and when you blog or tweet, please remember to include the hashtag #VWER.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Also – please take pix today and post them to the VWER groups on either Flickr or Koinup.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: OK, that’s it for the general announcements.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Today’s topic is “Mobile Apps and the Greater Metaverse.”
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Actually, that’s TWO topics, and we’ll take them in turn: first, mobile apps for VWs, like Pocket Metaverse and Lumiya – and anything else I haven’t heard of -
Grizzla Pixelmaid: and second, our impressions of the current state of VW alternatives to SL. I expect we’ll have a rousing discussion!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Now… we always begin by introducing ourselves, and if this is your first time here, please say so, so we can take good care of you.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Everyone can type at once!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I’m Chris Robinson, “Virtual Assistant” in the Office of Educational Technology for Georgia Gwinnett College in metro Atlanta.
AJ Brooks: 18 on the sim, for the transcript
Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia – builder
Grant Wishes (grantfaster): HI Grant Wishes from UW-Eau Claire, Wisconsin, USA
Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach at Sheffield University (UK) in the Information School and own our island Infolit iSchool
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney RN, Lecturer, Phd student Glasgow Caledonian University Scotland
Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Colorado
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): HI, I’m Heidi, from Sense for Deafblind People. I work in Learning and Development.
Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson, board of regents, university system of georgia
Melody Savagard: Melody from UW-Eau Claire, Wisconsin, USA
Beth Ghostraven: Beth Ghostraven, middle school librarian, Caledon pub owner, speaks broken typonese
Stranger Nightfire: I am new here, just a person curious about the subject
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Welcome! Glad you came, Stranger 
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Who else? Don’t be shy.
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, City University of New York, an aging SL-er
AJ Brooks: AJ Kelton, Director of Emerging and Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in NJ
Jon Quil (nietigheid): Hello, Jon here, new .. curious
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Welcome! We love curiosity!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Anybody else?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Well, the first part of today’s meeting, we’re going to talk about mobile apps for virtual worlds – the two I’m somewhat familiar with are Pocket Metaverse for iOS, and Lumiya for Android.
Jon Quil (nietigheid): [for the record.. now 22 avies]
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I have two of our college’s student accounts logged in here (I’m driving them): Grizzly001 is here via Pocket Metaverse; Grizzly080 is here via Lumiya
Beth Ghostraven: Neither one can sit, right?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: @Beth: Grizzly080 is sitting (via Lumiya). Let’s go around and just state whether we’ve each used either, both or neither of those apps
AJ Brooks: what is the experience like?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I haven’t used any of them
Jon Quil (nietigheid): Neither
Grizzla Pixelmaid: The one using lumiya can sit
Beth Ghostraven: neither, but getting a new phone and would like to use SL with it
AJ Brooks: I’ve never used either
Sophie Zuta: neither
Kali Pizzaro: i use pocket metaverse
Al Supercharge: only 2 apps (and they’re both SL) ?
Stranger Nightfire: neither
Claudia13 Rossini: <—only uses my Mac….big desktop
Quinn Houston: I use lumiya, I’m just not using it now
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I think you may be able to use them with other VWs but I haven’t tried it
Grant Wishes (grantfaster): Neither . .
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): I use Lumiya
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): (just TPing in someone on Lumiya)
Birdie Newcomb: neither
Al Supercharge: like Birdie
Grizzla Pixelmaid: For those who haven’t used either one – with PMV (Pocket Metaverse) you can’t see anything so can’t directly interact with objects, though you can accept teleports, inventory items, etc.
Oronoque Westland: the only mobility I have are my two feet, so no app experience
Grizzla Pixelmaid: With Lumiya, you can do all of the above, plus you can see – so that’s why Grizzly080 can sit
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): Smoldering who has just arrived is using Lumiya at the moment
Kavon Zenovka: I’ve used pocketmetaverse to pick up messages when not near a desktop
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.pocketmetaverse.com/
Birdie Newcomb: we’re in someone’s pocket? Hmm
Grizzla Pixelmaid: LOL
Al Supercharge: isn’t CloudParty on an app yet ?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Let’s talk about Pocket Metaverse first. You who use it – what do you think?
Kali Pizzaro: yeah i use pmv for chat and picking up notecards although i was on the free version and just changed to
Kali Pizzaro: paid not sure the advantage
Kali Pizzaro: i love it for what it is
Kali Pizzaro: pic up IM in my bed etc and chat
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I think the advantage of the paid version is that it helps the Lumiya developer(s?) keep working to improve it
Kali Pizzaro: great when i was doing my phd and could contact participants from anywhere
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Yeah, my IMs get capped pretty quickly so it’s nice to be able to check IMs on my ipad
Kali Pizzaro: which was important to connect quickly
Birdie Newcomb: not while driving, I hope
Kali Pizzaro:
Kavon Zenovka: I think it works if you have the type of network in SL that will send each other instant messages
Sophie Zuta: is it possible to access SL from an iPad?
Smolderingfire Fireguard: I tried using mobile grid client, but u had to pay regularly to access the grid. the one payment for lumiya was much more worth it
Birdie Newcomb: would it cut down on my lag?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Birdie, do you mean, would using a mobile app cut down lag?
Birdie Newcomb: yes
Oronoque Westland: for those of us not familiar with PMV, could someone briefly state its abilities
Smolderingfire Fireguard: lumiya also allows u to move around and cam. I was able to move my AV over by the chair, but unfortunately sitting is tricky
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Well, with PMV you can’t see anything anyway, but it’s quick for chat
Kali Pizzaro: Sophie yes with these mobile apps
Sophie Zuta: thank you …it would help to get some introductory info about PMV
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.pocketmetaverse.com/
Sophie Zuta: thanks Kali
Oronoque Westland: so PMV is text only?
Grizzly080: just takes a little practice. I’m sitting using lumiya
Birdie Newcomb: do both have the avatar, or just chat?
Smolderingfire Fireguard: but u need to know the object name to be able to get sit option
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Well, if you’re logged in using a viewer that lets you see stuff, and someone else is logged in via PMV, you can see them, they just can’t see you.
Grizzly001: I’m logged in using PMV so you can see me but I can’t see anything – and I can’t move either.
Smolderingfire Fireguard: In Lumiya I can switch between seeing or reading messages
Grizzly080: @smoldering – actually you don’t have to know the object name in Lumiya, you just have to touch the image on your screen. I’m sitting; I just touched the chair & it asked me if I wanted to sit
Smolderingfire Fireguard: so I only use it to move short distances
Beth Ghostraven: What are they like for using up battery life, or bandwidth?
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/
Kavon Zenovka: I use pocket metaverse on iPad and there doesn’t seem to be a bandwidth or battery problem
Kali Pizzaro: yeah me too
Kali Pizzaro: no problems
Grizzla Pixelmaid: They eat up the battery kinda quickly, in my experience. My iPad was at 92% 20 minutes ago when I logged Grizzly001 in via Pocket Metaverse; it’s at 81% now.
Smolderingfire Fireguard: bandwidth is ok, but 3d view sucks battery
Beth Ghostraven: does anyone use either one on a phone?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Beth, Lumiya is an android app and works on an android phone or tablet. Pocket Metaverse is an iPad app; I don’t think there’s an app for iPhones.
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): I find Lumiya works fairly easily bandwidth-wise .. and if it is low then I can always stick to the text option rather than using 3D
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): I use Lumiya on an Android – Samsung S3
Kali Pizzaro: sometimes if i open a notecard in PMV i did not realise it would go into my inventory in sl and i thought i had lost it
Smolderingfire Fireguard: I’m using a nexus 7 tablet right now
Kali Pizzaro: is the 3d view good
Kali Pizzaro: anyone got a screenshot
Sheila Yoshikawa: my netbook can’t cope with the official browser, so would lumiya be a good option for that?
Birdie Newcomb: if it’s not 3d, what do we look like?
Beth Ghostraven: my thoughts exactly, kali
Kali Pizzaro: if so can you upload to VWER flickr
Grizzly080: I’ll try to do that
Oronoque Westland: @Sheila, have you tried Firestorm or Imprudence? They are easier on the hardware
Grizzly001: Ill log out of Pocket Metaverse so I can use the iPad to get a pic of the Lumiya 3D. With PMV, if you want to use another app on your iPad, it automatically logs you out of SL. (With Lumiya, you can use other apps while Lumiya is running).
Smolderingfire Fireguard: 3d view makes it get fairly warm,
AJ Brooks: Grizzla, your profile shows up as if you were on SL normally – how does it deal with a friend request?
Kali Pizzaro: woo here comes Graham he uses lumiya all the time
Sheila Yoshikawa: @oronoque no I just reverting to lumping my laptop around when I knew I needed to use SL on the move
Claudia13 Rossini: you might also try the older Rainbow Viewer from BoyLane
Sheila Yoshikawa: apathy ruled
Kali Pizzaro: yeah grizzla you can friend request?
Kali Pizzaro: oh if you log on with PMV and you are in SL you log out that is worth noting lol
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Sorry, AJ, catching up after taking the pic – I have Grizzla logged in on my Mac
AJ Brooks: np
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I tried to use Lumiya to attend a VWER meeting a few months ago, when I had to be on the road during meeting time – but found it challenging to try to follow the chat. Tiny letters.
Smolderingfire Fireguard: in lumiya u add friend by switching to Nearby to give list, then long press the name
Claudia13 Rossini: gets Griz bifocals
Beth Ghostraven: slightly off-topic question: Can I take a pic that shows avatar names (SL v3)?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Try looking at Grizzly080′s profile – or send him a friend request – see what happens
AJ Brooks: i have – twice now
Grizzla Pixelmaid: LOL I wasn’t watching my phone closely enough
AJ Brooks: lol
Kali Pizzaro: of course you can go on SL via your ipad with logmein or some other remote access
Kali Pizzaro: here is Anthony Fontana http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrFwUsMhAKI
Kali Pizzaro: sorry just to add to the confusion
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I’ve had divided attention due to accepting friend requests on my phone – LOL – what other ways have been mentioned for accessing VWs other than with a viewer?
Kali Pizzaro: see above lol
Smolderingfire Fireguard: but we are here to talk about Mobile apps, Not remote viewing normal SL
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Well, I don’t think it’s entirely off-topic – because having to install a viewer client is a deterrent for a lot of people
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Kali Pizzaro: i was cheeky, Smolderingfire
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Is that something new, Kali? You being cheeky?
Kali Pizzaro: slaps wrist
Claudia13 Rossini: laughs
Smolderingfire Fireguard: but you’d then have install remote access app instead
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Ah. I haven’t used that, so didn’t know.
Kali Pizzaro: indeed you are quite right
Kali Pizzaro:
Sheila Yoshikawa: I suppose my question about the netbook was because although i could use imprudence etc. it would probably be sluggish and also still use lots of data on my PAYG mobile data stick, so I was thinking that lumiya might be a useful cheap (in data terms) option just for keeping in touch
Kali Pizzaro: is it only an android app?
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I think so Sheila – although using the small keyboard to try to carry on much of a conversation, I find troublesome
Kali Pizzaro: can someone take pics please
Smolderingfire Fireguard: don’t know if lumiya is on ios too, don’t have an iPhone
Grizzla Pixelmaid: @smoldering – Lumiya is not on iOS, only on android
Kali Pizzaro: no only android
Grizzla Pixelmaid high-fives with Kali
Kali Pizzaro:
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): I use Lumiya to attend music events in SL when I am on the move – seems to work ok for music etc .. can even give tips
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Do we have enough else to talk about with mobile apps to keep going on this subject? I can move the discussion of alternate VWs to another meeting.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I actually expected the mobile apps discussion to be quick
Claudia13 Rossini: ok, grabbed some pics for you
Birdie Newcomb: I’m wondering – - is this the future we’re looking at?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Thanks Claudia
Kali Pizzaro: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/05/lumiya-second-life-viewer-for-android-tablet.html
Sheila Yoshikawa: me too
Birdie Newcomb: Or has this been here already
Smolderingfire Fireguard: it might have been useful if the lumiya developer had been invited?
Kali Pizzaro: here is a screenshot from new world notes see above
Grizzla Pixelmaid: That’s a good idea, Smoldering. I will look into that; we can do that in the future
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): well given that there is a plan to introduce a mobile phone that can be used instead of a PC when at home – ie hooked up to monitor and keyboard … it could be something for the future
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Yes, in fact my boss says it won’t be long until there are no more desktop computers – people will carry tablets with them to hook up to monitor & keyboard, and use the tablet (or phone) as we currently use CPUs
Claudia13 Rossini: i think i’ll wait till they implant the electrodes in my brain and skip mobile apps
Birdie Newcomb: Do I have to be aware that an avatar may be on an app, so treat them like a person with disability — or can they do anything?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: It depends, Birdie. If someone is using PMV, they are blind and can’t move.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: If they’re using Lumiya, they can do almost anything, it’s just slower
Graham Mills: can fly but not run
Kavon Zenovka: is it so much about duplicating the VW experience or giving us an app that lets us connect to the community
Grizzly080: are you saying I’m slow? 
Kali Pizzaro: Graham you have used it for a while
Kali Pizzaro: would you ever use it if your computer was not on but your tablet was handy
Graham Mills: y
Beth Ghostraven: I think it’s partly the VW experience that makes us feel connected–sense of presence
Kali Pizzaro: or would you always fire up the computer
Graham Mills: esp in places I know well
Smolderingfire Fireguard: I do, like now
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Personally, having used both mobile apps, I much prefer using a computer for VWs.
Kali Pizzaro: ah cheers smolderingfire
Kali Pizzaro: me too
Oronoque Westland: @Kavon, an interesting point…immersive environment or social network…which is the priority?
Kali Pizzaro: immersive for me
Smolderingfire Fireguard: only heard about the talk last minute so grabbed tablet
Kavon Zenovka: yes as gaming communities use mobile apps to connect
Kali Pizzaro: pmv is convenient
Beth Ghostraven: both–not much point in an empty sim
Graham Mills: immersion is a state of mind not computer
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): perhaps that need changes depending on what you are doing at the particular moment in time – so sometimes immersive sometimes social
Kali Pizzaro: maybe graham
Beth Ghostraven: without the VW it’s just Tweetchat
Kali Pizzaro: yes tilly
Kali Pizzaro: or if you already know the person
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Yeah… over the holidays I had a lot of conversations with an SL friend who was traveling and only had her iPad with PMV. It was fine for me, but she found it frustrating to not be able to see or walk around.
Kali Pizzaro: it ain’t snowing in pmv
Kali Pizzaro:
Grant Wishes (grantfaster): I suppose it depends upon the task . .
Oronoque Westland: the answer to this (i.e. .immersive environment or social network…which is the priority?) influences what technology we prefer
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): I often use Lumiya when travelling to keep in touch with SL friends – ie social
Sheila Yoshikawa: well, it is the visual 3d bit that is distinctive/enjoyable about SL for me, so that would still have to be the default as far as I’m concerned – not that I can’t be immersed in a purely textual or aural experience but for SL a lot of it is about the visuals
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): but when home tend to use the lappie and do more ‘immersive’ stuff
Graham Mills: no mesh in lumiya
Grizzla Pixelmaid: @Graham – I think that used to be true, but now you CAN see mesh in Lumiya.
Kavon Zenovka: whispers: or can a current mobile app supplement the experience or community in a VW
Kali Pizzaro: not for me it is a different experience i use many social networks
Kali Pizzaro: but there is just something i love about this the 3d environment
Birdie Newcomb: would these apps bring a younger audience?
Kali Pizzaro: the social presence the embodiment of kali
Kali Pizzaro:
Oronoque Westland: the other issue is what tech our students use — for me it is increasingly mobile. Even though I prefer desktop I will have to follow my students and learn the mobile apps if I want them to follow me into SL
Al Supercharge: http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/
Beth Ghostraven: SL is implementing viewer changes, too
Smolderingfire Fireguard: I can see mesh in lumiya
Kali Pizzaro: yeah different tech for different needs
Sheila Yoshikawa: @birdie not in themselves I would have thought
Kavon Zenovka: the gaming communities are using apps to connect with their guilds and communities when they are not at a desktop
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Kavon, isn’t that what Steam does?
Kali Pizzaro: so connection not immersion?
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): there is mesh in Lumiya because Smoldering can see my trousers
Oronoque Westland: @Kavon, aren’t many games written with mobile in mind, unlike SL?
Graham Mills: avatar mesh
Kavon Zenovka: Steam is a community for desktop
Kali Pizzaro: which SL is joining
Kavon Zenovka: for mobile you’re more likely to use shivtr
Kavon Zenovka: which has text chat and also can hook up to VOIP
Grizzly080: I’m going to log, to save phone battery. bye!
Kali Pizzaro: got a link Kavon
Oronoque Westland: by Griz
Birdie Newcomb: Bye 080
Smolderingfire Fireguard: u mean petite mesh avatars? will have to check. but can see Tilly s mesh clothes
Kavon Zenovka: http://www.shivtr.com/
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): phew – at least am not naked – grins
Graham Mills: flexies don’t flex
Kali Pizzaro: thanks Kavon
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Yeah, gotta be careful w mesh clothes for people w non-mesh viewers
Kali Pizzaro: 5 mins folks
Grant Wishes (grantfaster): The usual rush to the bar . .
Kali Pizzaro: lol
Grizzla Pixelmaid: What’s our topic for next week, Kali?
Kali Pizzaro: mmm
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, the 5 min warning seems to have shut us up
Sheila Yoshikawa: “mmm” – pixel food?
Kali Pizzaro: What will you try new with educational technology, this year?
Kali Pizzaro: with Iggy
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Good!
Kali Pizzaro: so get your thinking caps on
Kali Pizzaro: ok so Oro wants to share something with us
Oronoque Westland: may I make an announcement?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I will upload the pic I took of Lumiya on my phone, to Flickr – and we can also post it with the transcript when it’s ready
Oronoque Westland: Virtual Harlem and Virtual Montmartre are leaving SL and going to an open sim grip…target date mid-January
Grizzla Pixelmaid: wow
Oronoque Westland: I do not know the new location yet
Kali Pizzaro: 
Oronoque Westland: 2nd announcement — Metanomic made a translator that still works
Oronoque Westland: if you are interested Kali will distribute
Oronoque Westland: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Virtual%20Harlem/224/34/31
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We’ve hit 12:30 SLT so, while we won’t turn into pumpkins, the official meeting is over. Please feel free to hang out and chat unofficially as long as you like
Galileo Zeplin: fascinating topic today, thanks grizzla and everyone
Birdie Newcomb: thanks for bringing it up
Grizzla Pixelmaid: I really enjoyed it. There was a lot more discussion about it than I expected.
Al Supercharge: http://www.sumdog.com/ has been improving
AJ Brooks: good to be able to attend, although the lunacy starts the week after next – thanks goodness I’m on vacation next week
Beth Ghostraven: oh? lunacy stops?
AJ Brooks: lol
Grizzla Pixelmaid: He’s talking about THE lunacy
Beth Ghostraven: oh, what’s that?
Sheila Yoshikawa: as opposed to A lunacy?
Grizzla Pixelmaid: yes
Tilly-Floss (hjeidi): smiles – ok – I had better head off – thanks all
Grizzla Pixelmaid: His PhD program apparently qualifies to be THE lunacy
Kali Pizzaro: ok got to go hope to see you all next week
AJ Brooks: yes – THE lunacy of THE semester
AJ Brooks: ROFL – OH YEAH!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Take care, all!
