January 24, 2013: Open Forum

January 24th, 2013 | Posted by Grizzla in Transcripts

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VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at www.vwer.org.


Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: January 24, 2013

Topic: Open Forum

Photos by Grizzla. Please join our VWER group at Flickr to add your own pictures!

Note: While VWER’s official meeting place is BGSU Community sim, it was inaccessible at the time of this meeting, so we convened on Grizzla’s home base, GGC Island, instead.

Kali Pizzaro: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet each Thursday at 11:30am SLT for an hour. 7:30pm In UK, 2:30pm est

Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Kali Pizzaro: This is a public meeting, so we keep and publish a transcript of what is said in local chat. If you’ve not seen our transcripts, you should check them out – they are an excellent information asset.

Kali Pizzaro: The transcripts can be found at our web site http://www.vwer.org – select the LIBRARY tab at the top.

Kali Pizzaro: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable continues to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas. Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL.

Kali Pizzaro: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there – Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. https://www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/

Kali Pizzaro: You can also find and post pictures to our Flickr group and follow us on Twitter @VWER. When you blog or tweet, please remember to include the tag #vwer. you can catch up on our tweetchat at #vwer or look at the library area

Kali Pizzaro: Tonight’s theme: Open Forum

Kali Pizzaro: let’s start as we always do with introductions. I am Evelyn McElhinney RN, Lecturer in Advanced Practice and part time doctoral student at Glasgow Caledonian University in Scotland.

Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia, builder and last minute sign maker

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Joe Essid, University of Richmond English/Writing Center. I’m teaching in SL again at the end of this term, with our House of Usher Simulation at Kali’s University Island

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Dan Holt, English Prof at Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, Georgia Gwinnett College in metro Atlanta

Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson, board of regents, university system of georgia

Wrenaria Antiesse: kimmy hescock, social and immersive media manager, oregon state university

Wrenaria Antiesse: part time cat

Beth Ghostraven: Beth O’Connell, middle school librarian in RL and Victorian pub owner in SL

Selva (selva.cerise): Selva is Tim Garner, Associate VP at Franklin College in Indiana…long time denizen of the metaverse from way back in the pre-SL era.

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): Midwestern private university.. teach Argumentative Writing on line and in SL

Rk Jinn: Rick Anderson, Rutgers University

Hakim George (trade.flow): Hakim George, Open University

Kali Pizzaro: in the UK?

Hakim George (trade.flow): yes

Kali Pizzaro: ah lol

Kali Pizzaro: I did not know you were so close

Kali Pizzaro: ok going – going –

Kali Pizzaro: gone to the random whale that jumps out of the water to the right

Claudia13 Rossini: lol


Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) whispers “It’s a dolphin.”

Kali Pizzaro: Ok folks I am going to need you help tonight I have not been a well wee soul so looking for your usual audience participation πŸ˜‰

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 7 on the sim, despite the hullaballoo

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): make that 13!

Kali Pizzaro: what burning discussion about tech in education would you like to discuss

Beth Ghostraven: What other virtual worlds have you explored, and what educational use are they best for?

Kali Pizzaro: go Beth

Beth Ghostraven smiles modestly

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Jokaydia Grid. I have land there and may or may not keep it

Beth Ghostraven: HI Birdie!

Rk Jinn: I run a Rutgers OpenSim, and Unity3d with Jibe for Virtual Negotiation project

Camie Rembrandt: Kitely

Kali Pizzaro: I was on Jokaydia grid for a while but more to explore

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): It gave me the utility of SL and a larger canvas for the project, Beth. It’s an OpenSim grid with hypergrid access

Kali Pizzaro: I have never got round to that can you tell me how it works again is pay as you go?

Camie Rembrandt: is your q to me, Kali?

Kali Pizzaro: Sorry yes Camie

Camie Rembrandt: ok

Camie Rembrandt: you can have one island for US$40/month with no time limitation

Camie Rembrandt: or you can pay as you go, yes

Beth Ghostraven: so if you need one for a few days you can do that?

Camie Rembrandt: yes

Camie Rembrandt: I usually develop an environment using SOAS (sim on a stick) and then upload it to Kitely

Beth Ghostraven: OH, Kitely–yes, pay by # of visitors too , I think

Kali Pizzaro: right so how much space is one island

Camie Rembrandt: Kitely Unlimited use for a fixed price starts at US$40

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): How do you handle avatar inventory, Camie? I know you are doing OARs for the sim

Camie Rembrandt: it includes all users

Kali Pizzaro: ok is it hyperlinked

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I may move to this, as I will only be teaching with a virtual world ever few years, at best, now

Beth Ghostraven: Kali, what do you mean by hyperlinked?

Camie Rembrandt: yes, Iggy that is why I moved there

Camie Rembrandt: Kali, I don’t think one can move between hypergrids

Kali Pizzaro: sorry I mean can you tp from other areas sorry

Camie Rembrandt: oh, that yes

Camie Rembrandt: you can move within Kitely

Kali Pizzaro: sorry not at my best lol

Kali Pizzaro: right so you could invite others to join you

Beth Ghostraven: Are there grids that you can do that with? Take one avatar between more than one grid?

Rk Jinn: Any with Hypergrid enabled, and that are routable on the internet

Birdie Newcomb: @Iggy What has changed?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): BTW, as an aside…Cloud Party has changed its logon options beyond Facebook

Kali Pizzaro: beat me too it Iggy

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Birdie, my teaching changed and I’m not teaching as many classes amenable to Virtual Worlds use

Rk Jinn: What’s cloud party like?

Claudia13 Rossini: let me know when they change the name to something more…appropriate

Camie Rembrandt: also, now you can control who accesses your island

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Don’t hold your breath for a name change

Kali Pizzaro: I tried it when it first started but did not like the facebook

Kali Pizzaro: oh that is interesting Camie

Camie Rembrandt: yes, Claudia, that is an unfortunate name…


Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Yes, when LL changes “Second Life” too to something my students don’t find “creepy”

Camie Rembrandt: lol Iggy

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I created a second FB account just so I could use Cloud Party

Kali Pizzaro: me too

Kali Pizzaro: so before we move on

Wrenaria Antiesse did too

Galileo Zeplin: main advantage of cloud party is that it can work with ordinary browser, no extra downloaded client needed

Claudia13 Rossini: this from the man whose students want to hide in closets at house of usher?

Beth Ghostraven: It seems to me that SL’s strength is the number of people here, so it’s the best for professional connections; but for actual teaching, other grids are better, because of cost and appropriateness

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): The drawback to Cloud Party is that a casual builder like me really cannot make stuff

Camie Rembrandt: I stopped using cloud party because of lack of control over private islands

Birdie Newcomb: that’s what students are for

Camie Rembrandt: now that CP has implemented access permissions I’m considering using it again

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Claudia, doing one canned simulation is different! They don’t have any interest in exploring a virtual world.

Kali Pizzaro: Kitely is sim on a stick, you can let others on and $40/month for rent includes how many on at same time?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): But the point is moot, anyhow. My next few tech & lit classes will focus away from cybernetics to other topics

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): @Beth, just curious, what is more appropriate at other grids than here in SL?

Kali Pizzaro: price I suspect is what pushes most folk

Kali Pizzaro: agree?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): SOAS is PC only still, correct?

Camie Rembrandt: yes, Iggy

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Beth mentioned cost and appropriateness. I get cost, not sure what she meant by appropriateness.

Kali Pizzaro: sorry missed that

Camie Rembrandt: @Iggy, you develop using SOAS and upload it to Kitely

Kali Pizzaro: just saw it

Camie Rembrandt: that way you save lots of money

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): No Mac, no Iggy πŸ™‚

Kali Pizzaro: ah do you need to know how to use blender or some other such tool Camie

Camie Rembrandt: no Kali

Rk Jinn: SOAS for Mac would be nice. Trying to figure out how.

Camie Rembrandt: SOAS: you build just like in SL

Hakim George (trade.flow): is SOAS reliable?

Kali Pizzaro: ok thanks

Camie Rembrandt: you can use mesh if you want, but there is no need

Camie Rembrandt: reliable, Hakim? in what sense?

Hakim George (trade.flow): does it crash, limitations on users, etc


Rk Jinn: It’s the same code as OpenSim

Camie Rembrandt: SOAS is single user

Hakim George (trade.flow): ah ok

Beth Ghostraven: @Dan, I mean that SL has adult content that makes it less appropriate for using with K-12 students

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I take it that current OpenSim server software fully supports mesh, then

Camie Rembrandt: it’s for developers

Rk Jinn: You can make it multiuser, but you have to have it configure with a routable IP. Which makes it less portable.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): @Beth – that’s a tough one in many VWs – impossible to control, IMHO, unless you can strictly limit access. The first time I logged into Cloud Party, someone had “erected” a 10-story high anatomical object – ahem…

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Thanks for the clarification, Beth.

Camie Rembrandt: I’ve been using mesh in my builds with SOAS, Iggy

Beth Ghostraven: yw πŸ™‚

Hakim George (trade.flow): thx

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): I have a more nuts and bolt question. Anyone have a suggestion for a third party viewer that works well with slow computers?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We’d have to pay mesh developers, and there’s no budget for any VW work any longer πŸ™

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): I know I’m going to have some students this week struggling with the SL viewer.

Claudia13 Rossini: pc or mac Dan?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Needs to be able to use media on a prim.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): How slow, Dan?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Either, Claudia.


Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): I just checked out catznip.

Camie Rembrandt: Imprudence?

Claudia13 Rossini: let me grab a link for you

Camie Rembrandt: oh, no Imprudence then

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Imprudence won’t display mesh. It won’t do media on a prim, either?

Camie Rembrandt: one interesting thing about Kitely is that each island has a 100,000 prim limit

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): I know Firestorm sometimes works when the SL viewer won’t.

Selva (selva.cerise): I have always found Phoenix to be fairly agile.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Isn’t Phoenix going out of support soon?

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): yes

Selva (selva.cerise): yes, it is

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): end of December

Claudia13 Rossini: http://my.opera.com/boylane/blog/ she has both a windows and a Mac viewer……..not fancy 1.23…but i’ve found it very stable in both XP and on my mac OS….

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): My laptop is getting old and I’m often on slow connections, Dan. Firestorm still works great for me.

Rk Jinn: I’ve finally switched to Firestorm for everything. But you need to download the OpenSim version of Firestorm now.

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Phoenix won’t work–no MOAP.

Camie Rembrandt: But Phoenix doesn’t have media on a prim, right?

Kali Pizzaro: πŸ™‚

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Remind the students to plug in their AC adapters…they really help with processor speed

Camie Rembrandt: That’s right, Rk, and that is boring…

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Agreed, Iggy. Makes a big difference.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We are going to meet around some desktops for the final project in SL. I don’t want to deal with students’ machines these days, even if 70% now have Macbooks (the Desktop is dead on our campus for students)

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Thanks, Claudia, I’ll check it out.

Rk Jinn: The class I use SL for does a lot of finding and studying communities. Has anyone found success doing that in any of the other virtual technologies?

Kali Pizzaro: good point RK

Selva (selva.cerise): I used ActiveWorlds before SL hit the scene. It was fairly good from that vantage point, Rk.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @RK, if you mean 3D, no. But one of my students did an independent study of blogging and influence

Rk Jinn: What s activeworlds status?

Selva (selva.cerise): I haven’t had any land in ActiveWorlds for quite some time now, but I assume that it is still up and running for educational purposes.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): What was ActiveWorld’s population size?

Rk Jinn: My class is Self and Society in Virtual Contexts. So blogs, Facebook, Twitter are part of the course, but the students are required to learn the community structure of the 3d environments they find.

Camie Rembrandt: Just two URLs I didn’t post before: http://simonastick.com/ and http://www.kitely.com/

Beth Ghostraven: Rk. I think SL has more actual communities; have you studied Caledon here?

Rk Jinn: Kitely, might be really interesting as an option.

Rk Jinn: I’ve had some students go there as part of the class.

Beth Ghostraven: I’m working on building community with my pub there

Kali Pizzaro: The community aspect is an area I am interested in

Rk Jinn: The communities still are more, and have been around longer in SL. But the construction of community is important to the class so exploring new communities is good too.

Kali Pizzaro: particularly health

Claudia13 Rossini: must be a few million communities in SL

Beth Ghostraven: The Book and Tankard Public House http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Victoria%20City/101/143/23

Kali Pizzaro: this is part of my PhD

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Here’s the link to the catznip viewer: http://catznip.com/

Birdie Newcomb: no Mac version available

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I used to RP a bookseller in the Armada Breakaway sims. I was astounded by the depth of community there

Beth Ghostraven: Yes, there are some longterm residents with stories to tell!


Camie Rembrandt: Hope this is useful: http://excelsior-station.wikidot.com/misfit-s-index-of-viewers-miv

Kali Pizzaro: ok so the cloud party convo died

Kali Pizzaro: is there any pros to using it at the moment

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): deader than Julius Caesar, Kali πŸ˜€

Camie Rembrandt: I might go back

Camie Rembrandt: first time users loved it

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): It’s promising, if you don’t mind not being able to build

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Or sit

Beth Ghostraven: I haven’t looked at it yet, but it sounds like it’s still going

Camie Rembrandt: unlike SL’s first time users lol

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Islands can be connected too

Kali Pizzaro: yes I remember I had issues at first

Kali Pizzaro: i have to enable GBL? in chrome

Camie Rembrandt: I was surprised with the way people who had never been to VW responded to CP

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): It was rather touching to meet the CEO in-world, helping newcomers. That has never happened in SL in my time here, though I hear that in 2003-4, it was different.

Kali Pizzaro: hope that is the right abbreviation

Beth Ghostraven: How can I tell if I’ll know anyone in Cloud Party when I get there? Are any of you my friends on Facebook?

Kali Pizzaro: ah see that is the issue I had I don’t have many people on my facebook from here or elsewhere

Camie Rembrandt: You can look up Camie Rembrandt (please don’t tell FB :P)

Kali Pizzaro: I keep my facebook more private

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): You could check through the FB VWER page, Beth

Beth Ghostraven: If you want to IM me your Facebook name, I’ll look you up

Beth Ghostraven: I have a professional account that I use for education and virtual world stuff

Kali Pizzaro: I have a bit in my info saying that i keep facebook for friends and family

Kali Pizzaro: not for VW or twitter

Claudia13 Rossini: (i have FOUR friends on fb….3 more then i want)

Kali Pizzaro: which i use more for professional

Kali Pizzaro: however i do have some VW folk

Camie Rembrandt: lol Claudia

Beth Ghostraven: I have one like that, too, only for people I’ve actually met; then I have another one for professional connections

Kali Pizzaro: but usually it is inane chatter that I put on facebook

Camie Rembrandt: @Beth, me too: one account just for people I’ve met offline


Kali Pizzaro: ok ten mins folks

Kali Pizzaro: here is a question

Kali Pizzaro: what keeps you in SL – can be prof or pleasure

Beth Ghostraven: the people

Claudia13 Rossini: my friends keep me here…….and my building

Kali Pizzaro: me – community, friends, time to learn something else and of course research

Beth Ghostraven: also, I LOVE being able to communicate with chat, and still have a visual component

Birdie Newcomb: this group — and more recently, Deep Think

Kali Pizzaro: Friends = VWER of course

Selva (selva.cerise): research, people, exploration, diversity, etc.

Kali Pizzaro: the feeling of being her with you

Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Beth, i get totally immersed

Camie Rembrandt: other people’s creativity: it’s amazing

Kali Pizzaro: here

Kali Pizzaro: yes that too

Galileo Zeplin: sense of immersion is important, aye

Hakim George (trade.flow): yes

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): both teaching and social life.. community… friends.. have alt with same with clubs stores, etc.. SL has become an extension of my rl

Kali Pizzaro: I would say that sums it up like life there is not one thing that keeps you going back to a ‘place’

Beth Ghostraven: I also really enjoy shopping, for very little real money, and being able to wear clothes and decorate my house in ways I can’t do in RL

Claudia13 Rossini: laughs, sense, if i’m sick, i put my av in pj’s and tuck her in bed

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): πŸ™‚

Camie Rembrandt: oh I should have done that, Claudia lol

Kali Pizzaro: fantastic

Selva (selva.cerise): I love that, Claudia!

Claudia13 Rossini: and Kali, when i’ve been sick, SL has been a lifesaver, an escape i can’t make at most times in r/l

Kali Pizzaro: I have met so many people from all over the world been to see so many fantastic creative places

Kali Pizzaro: yes

Beth Ghostraven: I’m not so immersed that I have plumbing here, though

Kali Pizzaro: oh can i quote that

Wrenaria Antiesse: building, shopping, connecting with people like vwer πŸ˜‰

Beth Ghostraven: quote which, Kali?

Birdie Newcomb: working with others, whom I’ll never meet

Kali Pizzaro: oh claudia

Claudia13 Rossini: well it really is like its name in a way, a second life, or in my case an extension of my first life

Beth Ghostraven: yes, it really is

Kali Pizzaro: remember I am a nurse and looking at health information in Sl but also about how it contributes to wellbeing

Kali Pizzaro: for my phD

Kali Pizzaro: lol

Claudia13 Rossini: just IM me dear

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Kali I stick around for VWER. I RP with an ALT, and that is fun, too, because unlike a game we make the story arc and content happen

Birdie Newcomb: It’s like living in a story, but I can build and participate, and interact with others in the same story

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): Thanks everyone… very interesting meeting…

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): πŸ™‚

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): For online students, it gives them more of a sense of place and community, than working only with 2D tools.

Hakim George (trade.flow): thanks

Kali Pizzaro: yes think that is us at the moment

Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Dan

Kali Pizzaro: yes Prof Dan I read your piece

Kali Pizzaro: on that

Selva (selva.cerise): I’ve played with vampires, Goreans, Neko, families, etc….where else but here?!

Kali Pizzaro: you got a link

Kali Pizzaro: lol Selva

Kali Pizzaro: and a nicer bunch of folk you could not meet eh

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): http://dan-holt.blogspot.com/

Kali Pizzaro: thanks Dan

Claudia13 Rossini: i can’t imagine my life without my friends from here, hell, even friends i meet in yahoo chat over a decade ago that i dragged into SL

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Selva, ye forgot the PIRATES

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): lol, were they kicking and screaming, @Claudia?

Beth Ghostraven: Arrgh!

Selva (selva.cerise): *laughs* Arrrrrr, no I didn’t!

Claudia13 Rossini: lol, yes, but fortunately i drugged them for the first week

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): “Bind fast his corky arms! How now, whey-face? etc.”

Kali Pizzaro: however that is us for the moment folks

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Always the best plan, Claudia!

Kali Pizzaro: thanks again for a great meeting and your patience

Birdie Newcomb: a moveable feast!

Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Dan, grins

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): So is this your Island, Kali?

Beth Ghostraven: And Grizz, and Claudia!

Kali Pizzaro: we should be back in our usual place next week thanks all

Kali Pizzaro: @Dan this is Grizzla’s college’s island

Selva (selva.cerise): It was fun listening in and I look forward to future meetings. Thanks to you all!

Galileo Zeplin: thanks for good meeting, in spite of location difficulties

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Grizzla crashed and cannot log back in

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): This is Grizzla’s home turf

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): Thanks.. see you all next week… enjoyed this.

Kali Pizzaro: Cheers Selva

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Ahhh, cool.


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