VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable March 7, 2013
Topic: “SL Changes and the Effect on Viewers.”
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Hi everyone and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable!
Grizzla Pixelmaid: This is a public meeting in TEXT chat. We log the chat and publish a transcript of each meeting.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: VWER has met weekly since 2008, and you can find ALL those transcripts at vwer.org/transcripts, full of info and opinions on many topics re virtual worlds and education.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: General info about the VWER:
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We meet every Thursday, 11:30a-12:30p SLT (SLT = Second Life Time, same as U.S. Pacific time), and we thank Bowling Green State University for allowing us to meet on their virtual campus.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We welcome a wide variety of educators, from seasoned veterans to the newly-rezzed.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: If you ‘re new to VWER meetings, be aware that the chat sometimes runs at a dizzying pace. It may take you awhile to get used to two or three conversations going on simultaneously.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: If you say something that isn’t acknowledged, don’t take it personally; unfortunately, good contributions are sometimes overlooked in the flow of chat.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Don’t be shy to say the same thing again – or IM me and I’ll make sure your important question/comment is addressed.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Check out the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group in Second Life and our group on Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/159154226946/.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Follow us on Twitter @VWER, and when you blog or tweet, please remember to include the hashtag #VWER.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: ~
Grizzla Pixelmaid: To introduce myself: in “First Life,” people call me Chris Robinson, and I’ll moderate today’s discussion.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: At Georgia Gwinnett College in metro Atlanta, I develop resources for faculty members who want to use Second Life in their courses, and I also teach just a bit.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: ~
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Our topic today is “SL Changes and the Effect on Viewers.”
Birdie Newcomb: full boat today
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Once a year or so, VWER revisits the topic of viewers, discussing which might be best for which purposes, and I had originally intended that as our topic today –
Grizzla Pixelmaid: BUT then I read about the big changes to SL’s code which will soon be rolled out –
Grizzla Pixelmaid: and I realized that whatever is currently true for viewers, will be outdated before long.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: SO I invited Firestorm’s Project Manager, Jessica Lyon, to be my guest today, to tell us in simple terms about what changes to expect, how that will affect everyone regardless of what viewer they use.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: So this is a special roundtable meeting – it will be in text chat – but –
Grizzla Pixelmaid: after introductions, I’ll ask you to limit comments so Jessica can begin with a general explanation of what changes to expect, and after that we can ask her questions.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 33 in the boat ATM
Grizzla Pixelmaid: We always begin by briefly introducing ourselves, so please do – and if this is your first time here, please say so, so we can take good care of you.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Everyone can type at once!
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, college publisher
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney RN, Lecturer and Doctoral student Glasgow Caledonian University Scotland
Jessica Lyon first time!
Beth Ghostraven: Beth Ghostraven, middle school librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; unofficial liaison between education groups in SL
Liana Hubbenfluff: Montana State University. I teach teachers in the summer and work with designers and biologists otherwise.
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): My first time 🙂
JeanClaude Vollmar: Hi. I’m Jeff Le Blanc from the University of Northwestern Ohio. I’m the VP for IT there.
Lauren Thurman (laural.mccallen): Laural McCallen, K- 12 District IT Teacher SLEEC and TEC Islands
Carlos Whitefalcon: Carlos Whitefalcon – teach biblical Hebrew in Jokaydia Grid (opensim)
Kali Pizzaro: Welcome treacle
Harry (anstett.brandenburg): first time
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Thank you.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Joe Essid, University of Richmond English & Writing Center. Proprietor, Virtual House of Usher and doing my last-ever stint teaching in SL this semester!
SaintLEOlions Zimer: SaintLEOlions Zimer from Saint Leo University I’m the online community manager 🙂
Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson, board of regents, university system of georgia
Sam (samlan.actor): Steven It guy for Glasgow Caledonian University
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): Help desk consultant for cross-platform immersive worlds
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Very cool – lots of first-timers. Special welcome to you all. Who else?
Wrenaria Antiesse: Kimmy Hescock, social and immersive media manager, Oregon State University
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): Kala, mentor n developer
Kali Pizzaro: woop Steven
Tori Landau: Patricia Dean, volunteer owner of the former International Schools Island, now Moonstone and Moonstone Haven, and volunteer event coordinator for the Open University’s campus, Deep Think
Harry (anstett.brandenburg): wow, I just met a librarian last night, and we were discussing use of sl in education….
Azwaldo Villota: former microbiologist and science teacher; scripter interested in VW instructional design
Sam (samlan.actor): oh also the most awesomness it guy at GCU and dont let anyone tell you diffrent
Sam (samlan.actor): plus most humble
Sun Lighting Animation Creator (crazylaracroft)first time here at the meeting
Kali Pizzaro: lol tut
Jessica Lyon: Very impressive group of professionals here!
Kali Pizzaro: Hi Sun Welcome
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia)behaves with more than one GCU person present (landlords!)
Sun Lighting Animation Creator (crazylaracroft): thanks
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Anyone else?
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Please have a seat around the table, everyone – it makes more chairs as you sit down
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): chairs not working around table
Al Supercharge(looks for an Open Sim representative who can answer today’s question)
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Joey 🙂
Merlin Moonshadow: Hi, everyone. 🙂
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Hey Treacle
Oronoque Westland: look at Avatars!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Welcome everyone. We’re just finishing introductions.
Zotarah Shepherd: I am working on an MA in Education Technology at Sonoma State University in northern California. I finished my classes. My Thesis project: Teaching and Learning Life Awareness & Success Skills in Virtual Worlds is taking a loooong time.
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, City University of New York, and very worried
Kali Pizzaro: HI Path
Pathfinder Lester: hi Kali 🙂
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): If anyone else wants to introduce themselves – go for it – and then I’ll quickly move on to Jessica. 🙂
Kali Pizzaro: Hi Ellie come on over
Azwaldo Villota: Oronoque: worried?
Oronoque Westland: 40 on the sim
Tori Landau: Hi Oro and Path!
Oronoque Westland: worried about Firestorm
Oronoque Westland: hey Tori
Pathfinder Lester: John Lester, Montreal, http://about.me/pathfinder
Sam (samlan.actor): firestorms going no where hehe
Azwaldo Villotadetaches Av HUD Tool – ditches bling
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): David Fliesen – I just developed an undergrad course for Rasmussen College on Engineering Virtual Worlds
Jessica Lyon: \o/ Canada
Ellie Brewster: Sharon Collingwood, Women’s Studies, Ohio State
Jessica Lyon: I didn’t know you were from Montreal Path!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, this meeting is not about Firestorm per se, but about the upcoming changes in SL’s code which will affect all viewers
Cooper Patterson (cooper.macbeth): Will anything be on voice?
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): This is in text.
Ellie Brewster: What a crowd!
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): OK, moving on…
Grizzla Pixelmaid: ~
Grizzla Pixelmaid: OK – so – today will start out a bit different because I want Jessica to have a chance to explain a few things with minimal interruptions.
Jessica Lyon: Right, not here to promote Firestorm, here to inform about upcoming linden changes to the SL service which will impact all viewers.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Please try to hold your questions until she’s finished with her basic explanation – OK?
Pathfinder Lester: Jessica, yes. I’ve been living in Montreal now for almost 2 years.
Grizzla Pixelmaid: Take it away, Jessica!
Zotarah Shepherd: Nice to see some more familiar faces and some new ones here.
Jessica Lyon: that’s awesome Path! we gotta chat later!
Xon Emoto: fHanno Tietgens, Buero X Media Lab in Hamburg, initiator of Campus Hamburg in 3D.
Jessica Lyon: ok
Jessica Lyon: so, I’ll type as fast as I can, please forgive my typo’s.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): of course. We are all fluent in typonese
Beth Ghostraven: lol yes indeed
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): 40 on the sim for the transcript
Jessica Lyon: So LL has been working on a number of very significant improvements to the SL service. Server side baking, Materials project, HTTP comms protocol changes and various other things. I’ll talk very briefly about these but provide links to informative blogs you can all read afterwards which explain these changes in far more detail.
Jessica Lyon: First, Server side baking which Ll is now choosing to coin Server side appearance. The term “baking” is a techy name for the process of avatar textures setting on avatars for yourself, those in your region and those in neighboring regions who render you.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): …and when the transcript is published, we’ll make all those links live on the vwer.org website.
Jessica Lyon: You have all at one point or another experienced what we call “bake fail” which is basically when your avatar appearance doesn’t get transmitted properly. There are dozens of causes for bake fail to occur mainly because the system for rendering avatar textures is extremely complicated and there are so many areas that can go wrong during the process.
Jessica Lyon: So SSB is a rewrite, to simplify the process, eliminate all the extra work that gets done, so that there are less things which can go wrong.
Jessica Lyon: More info on this effort here http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/avatar-baking-and-the-clock-has-started/
Jessica Lyon: Being breif as I can here. Next we’ll talk about materials project.
Jessica Lyon: Materials will be a really great improvement to the way textures render, effectively giving them real 3d type texture.
Jessica Lyon: More info on Materials here http://blog.nalates.net/2012/08/16/second-life-materials-system-announced/ and here http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/more-on-materials-processing/
Jessica Lyon: and finally, HTTP communications protocol.
Jessica Lyon: This is the system used for transmitting data back and forth from the viewer to the LL server. From your computer, through your modem, router, ISP’s, to LL’s servers.
Jessica Lyon: This is another system which is extremely complicated in design and has been problematic since Ll started using it a few years back.
Jessica Lyon: Some believe (and I think I have to agree), bake fail became more prevalent when HTTP protocol started being used by LL.
(At this point, the region crashed. After some consternation and lag, we resumed. Thanks to Kali for getting a transcript of a few moments I lost, in returning. )
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): well, this is a great advert for LL technology
Xon Emoto: absolutely.
JeanClaude Vollmar: Argh. LOL You’re right. I can’t get anywhere now.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Bring on the SSB!
Liana Hubbenfluff: welcome back everyone…slooooowly
Wrenaria Antiesse: nice and cozy
Jessica Lyon: \o/ region crashes!
Wrenaria Antiesse: :p
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): wb Jessica
Liana Hubbenfluff: everyone take off AO and scripts?
Jessica Lyon: ty lol. Not sure when we actually crashed so I have a copy/paste of the last few sentences I typed ready.
Wrenaria Antiesse: well I managed to get 3 screenshots before crashing, Grizz, lol
Zotarah Shepherd: There were 42 on the sim now 31 have returned
Liana Hubbenfluff: bald is beautiful
Beth Ghostraven: shouts: take off your hair!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’ll lose my hair
Liana Hubbenfluff: see? I thought so
Jessica Lyon: ya, having scripts enabled on a region with lots of people will kill it every time
Xon Emoto: They call me the 1-prim-avatar, anyway:)
Shoulder Beetle: Click me to toggle the animation on/off
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): RL Joe now, but younger and not as muscular 😛
Kali Pizzaro: please take off any fancy gear
Jessica Lyon: Let me know when you want me to begin again Grizzla
Kali Pizzaro: cough not literally please replace 🙂
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Go ahead, Jessica, we’ll keep the transcript and folks can catch up
Jessica Lyon: ok, I’ll paste my last few sentences here.
Jessica Lyon: started being used by LL. So this rewrite is also instrumental in improving the user experience and the SL Service. More info on HTTP here… http://blog.nalates.net/2013/01/06/connecting-to-second-life/
[11:43] Jessica Lyon: Being brief as I can here. Next we’ll talk about materials project.
[11:44] Jessica Lyon: Materials will be a really great improvement to the way textures render, effectively giving them real 3d type texture.
[11:44] Jessica Lyon: More info on Materials here http://blog.nalates.net/2012/08/16/second-life-materials-system-announced/ and here http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/more-on-materials-processing/
[11:44] Jessica Lyon: and finally, HTTP communications protocol.
[11:45] Jessica Lyon: This is the system used for transmitting data back and forth from the viewer to the LL server. From your computer, through your modem, router, ISP’s, to LL’s servers.
[11:45] Arletta Martian entered the region (76.20 m).
[11:46] Jessica Lyon: This is another system which is extremely complicated in design and has been problematic since LL started using it a few years back.
[11:46] Jessica Lyon: Some believe (and I think I have to agree), bake fail became more prevalent when HTTP protocol
Jessica Lyon: So the good news with all of these changes is that LL is listening! They are trying and they want to improve this service.
Warthog Jun: might I suggest a group chat so people can participate off sim
Kali Pizzaro: we will shortly
Kali Pizzaro: oh mm
Jessica Lyon: They are addressing some of the biggest issues that have plagued SL for a very long time.
Sam (samlan.actor): liek the pink texture bug?
Ellie Brewsteris waiting for the bad news
MystiTool DynaTable: Attempting to fix chair positions. One moment, please.
Oronoque Westland: sim crash was just a reminder of what used to be a frequent problem
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): too long
MystiTool DynaTable: All chairs should now be moving into correct positions.
Warthog Jun: scalability?
Warthog Jun: lag?
Shoulder Beetle: Click me to toggle the animation on/off
Jessica Lyon: Here is the catch… the reason these issues haven’t been addressed for so long is because they are very complicated issues to fix. With complexity comes trial and error, so there is a very good likely hood that all these changes, coming in all around the same time may not all happen harmoniously and bug free.
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): No pain, no gain. 🙂
Ellie Brewstergets a sinking feeling
Jessica Lyon: And this is where you guys are wondering what to expect over the next few months. HOPEFULLY everything will just work exactly as planned!
Warthog Jun: summer of 2007 here we come
Carlos Whitefalcon: these are server and client side changes I assume
Jessica Lyon: But I’m a realist when I can be, and with major rewrites of such fundamental code, bugs happen, it’s just the way things go.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): “hopefully” is a significant word
Jessica Lyon: Right, so.. I think I’ll shut up now and let the questions come in. I’ll answer them as best I can.
Jessica Lyon: But please, read those 4 links folks! They’ll help you understand what these projects are
Ellie Brewster: Do we know when all this is going to happen to us?
Warthog Jun: what open houses with lindens be set up
Jessica Lyon: We don’t know exactly when Ellie, other than very soon.
Ellie Brewsterswallows hard
Warthog Jun: what beta groups
Jessica Lyon: LL has already passed their original date for server side baking which was set end of Feb. Lots of issues still, lots for them still to do.
Kali Pizzaro: 34 back for the transcript
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): *When* is the big Q, as I’m planning my final exam in SL and want a viewer that works 🙂
Warthog Jun: which lindens will be assigned to what
Sam (samlan.actor): [Queastion] there is a common texture fault the pink texture bug that happens on even high end graphics cards… is this going to be ixed with the new updates
Oronoque Westland: I was not paid to type this (smile) but a BIG PLUS in using Firestorm is the online support…that is what I am counting on to get me through the changes ahead
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): when will the dis-service phase be over
Beth Ghostraven: @Jessica, could you repeat those 4 lines that you referred to?
[12:01] Jessica Lyon: Right, so.. I think I’ll shut up now and let the questions come in. I’ll answer them as best I can.
[12:02] Jessica Lyon: But please, read those 4 links folks! They’ll help you understand what these projects are
Beth Ghostraven: oh, links, sorry
Jessica Lyon: Ignatius, first thing we can expect to roll out will be SSB, though we don’t know when. I can relatively assure everyone that they won’t make it live on the grid until at least the most popular Third party viewers have it in a released state. Because this isn’t one of those things that if it’s screwed up people won’t notice. This will effect everyone if it is broken or if there are a lot of people on viewers that do not support it.
Jessica Lyon: @ Beth, 4 links.. yes, one moment while I grab them again.
Jessica Lyon: Server side baking, LL now coining Server side appearance http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/avatar-baking-and-the-clock-has-started/
Jessica Lyon: Materials project http://blog.nalates.net/2012/08/16/second-life-materials-system-announced/ and another link http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/more-on-materials-processing/
Jessica Lyon: and finally HTTP communication protocol work http://blog.nalates.net/2013/01/06/connecting-to-second-life/
Beth Ghostraven: great, thanks!
Jessica Lyon: @ Euro.. we do not know when this process will stabilize, that’s as good a guess as anyones. Even LL doesn’t know when they’ll have SSB ready, or materials, or HTTP.
Jessica Lyon: Just “soon” is what we have
Warthog Jun: sigh
Ellie Brewster: typical
Warthog Jun: enhancements
Jessica Lyon: I’m going to guess by my experience to expect maybe 3-4 months before things really get back to normal. That I hope is a worst case guess.
Warthog Jun: not scalability
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): when will the dis-service phase be over… give us a ballpoint estimate
Warthog Jun: not stableization
Beth Ghostraven: I’ve been in SL since July, and this *is* normal for me :o)
Jessica Lyon: Well, in fairness to LL, this projects are major overhauls of the backend service. Core code, to how everything works. It’s extremely complicated stuff and I’m grateful LL has taken on the task.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Thank you, Jessica. Fingers crossed for May, when classes are done. LL does not understand the US education calendar.
Jessica Lyon: well in this case, their calendar is that they want it done and working well as soon as humanly possible.
Jessica Lyon: But it is impossible to accurately predict how long that will take.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): of course–unbaked or half-baked ruins everyone’s experience
Ellie Brewster: I don’t understand why they don’t work out bugs in the release candidate first.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yeah, it would sure be better if they wait longer to release it – work out more bugs
Oronoque Westland: @Iggy, LL does not care to understand education, much less the calendar
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): ballpoint estimates are not exact ones
Jessica Lyon: right, currently the bake fail issue is a pandemic, everyone has experienced it.
Brielle Coronet: for those of us who arrived late, is it possible to summarize what was said or a chat copy?
Kali Pizzaro: if your q get missed post again but give jessica a mo to answer
Jessica Lyon: We all have gone through it and even today I had bake fail when I first logged in.
Zotarah Shepherd: I am worried about accessibility. It seems with every update higher end graphics and newer computers are required and more bandwidth to work properly. SL eats up my data limit fast.
Jessica Lyon: Many manifestations of bake fail, sometimes your a cloud, sometimes your naked to others but fully dressed to yourself.
Sam (samlan.actor): [Queastion] there is a common texture fault the pink texture bug that happens on even high end graphics cards… is this going to be ixed with the new updates
Jessica Lyon: that’s awkward!
Kali Pizzaro: i will deal with Brielle in Im
Jessica Lyon: ty Kali
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): 6 months 9 months 12 months???
Jessica Lyon: RIght, Samlan, the Pink bug. Though I like pink! I am not a supporter of the pink bug!
Kali Pizzaro: so Sam had a q
Kali Pizzaro: fab jessica
Carlos Whitefalcon: What’s the pink bug?
Brielle Coronet: oh explains why i appeared naked yesterday to some ==thought it was the mesh
Sam (samlan.actor): ill send a pic to anyone who hasnt seen it
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): bake fails more if http default is on if have found btw… some many of these issues seem inter-related
Jessica Lyon: so, pink actually started quite a long time ago, and is often associated with ATI drivers, sometimes old drivers, sometimes cutting edge new drivers from ATI. But it does also occasionally occur on Nvidia drivers too. So I’m not laying blame on any card manufacturer. It is effectively an incompatibility between the viewer code and a particular vid card driver.
Beth Ghostraven: (If you’d like to see the chat thus far, I’m logging it at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1urj8pWEHmcReb97k2HLIaE1_SaV7AC391b1_oMaqoYo/edit?usp=sharing)
Jessica Lyon: As vid cards issue new drivers, viewers need to keep up with, and test against those drivers. Sometimes that slips through the cracks as with the last release of Firestorm.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): ty Beth
Ed Merryman: re the pink bug,,,, http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/ati
Jessica Lyon: TY Ed!
Ed Merryman: yw 🙂
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): you can make a ballpoint estimate, or i can make a ballpoint estimate, what do you like better
Jessica Lyon: It’s not that we’re blaming vid card drivers exactly, it’s like I said, an incompatibility that arises from time to time. More frequent lately.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): btw, Jessica, thank you for supporting Mac OS. I have never updated a driver and never plan to do so.
Sam (samlan.actor): so the material changes wont change this?
Jessica Lyon: lol, we support all three equally, as best we can Ignatius.
Ed Merryman: sam if you mean the pink bug,, then no
Jessica Lyon: Materials project won’t change the pink issue, no.
Sam (samlan.actor): ok thankyou!
Jessica Lyon: Now, server side baking requires everyone to be on a viewer that has the server side baking code.
Jessica Lyon: which means, that whatever viewer you are on right now, this minute.. will NOT be compatible. Unless your on Singularities Alpha version with SSB.
Second Life: Items successfully shared.
Kali Pizzaro: I assume SL viewer will be ok or not?
Carlos Whitefalcon: what is SSB?
Ed Merryman: brb
Birdie Newcomb: HI
Jessica Lyon: When LL flips the switch for server side baking (SSB), and you are not on a (SSB) capable viewer, avatars will not render correctly to you and your avatar will not render correctly to others. Exactly how that will look keeps changing as the code is still developing but you can be assured it won’t be pretty.
Brielle Coronet: <–using singuarity. how do i know which one
Jessica Lyon: I use (SSB) as a shorthand for server side baking Carlos.
Carlos Whitefalcon: thx jessica
Jessica Lyon: Brielle, I understand they have an alpha available on their website but I’m not sure where exactly.
Carlos Whitefalcon: anyone know if opensim will have to go through these changes too?
Jessica Lyon: Good question Carlos!
Jessica Lyon: Ok, Opensim…
Jessica Lyon: so while the process of texturing avatars will be different server side in Second Life, Third party viewers have the option of leaving the old avatar rendering code in the viewer.
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Will the new viewer changes coincide with the release of the Steam viewer Jessica?
Jessica Lyon: Meaning.. when you log into SL on a given third party viewer, it will use the new code for rendering avatars. But if you log off SL and onto opensim the viewer will use the Old code.
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Naring’nari, a very good Q. Would make a lot of sense
Camie Rembrandt: that is good to know Jessica 🙂
Jessica Lyon: So while the server side code in SL will not be backwards compatible, at least Firestorm will have backwards compatibility for opensim. I have to assume some of the other third party viewers who support open sim will as well
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Jessica, am I correct in having heard you say that you have no idea when the new changes will come, nor what they will coincide with?
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): What about changing from viewer to viewer, some people do that. Will that be worse than it is now? 🙂
Jessica Lyon: Grizzla, that’s correct. The best I can offer is the best guess we’ve been given by LL, which I might add keeps changing from week to week.
Jessica Lyon: Generally, that answer is “Soon”.
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Or will Steam just be using the standard Firestorm viewer?
Jessica Lyon: We were originally told end of Febuary, obviously we’re passed that date, and from knowing a little bit about the problems they’ve been having with testing SSB, (We’ve been helping LL with this testing process as well), it’s still at least a few weeks away
James OReilly (eurominuteman.jameson): beyond the pink pixel issue, do you have an educated completion estimate for project management purposes
Jessica Lyon: Joey, if there is any correlation between steam and these changes it would be purely coincidence I think
Jessica Lyon: @ Treacle, changing from viewer to viewer ‘should not’ be impacted any differently than it already is.. I dont’ think.
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): ok ❤ Thanks
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): 🙂
Jessica Lyon: @ Joey, we’ve made no decision about steam yet we being Firestorm.
Jessica Lyon: have I missed any questions yet?
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Will there be differences in affect for different operating systems? HTTP Textures had been really hard on Mac users
Carlos Whitefalcon: Steam is a viewer?
Sam (samlan.actor): its a gamining platform
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): @ Carlos – Steam is Steampowered.com which is largest gaming community in world
Sam (samlan.actor): like grand central station for gamers
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Linden Lab announced several months ago that they would roll out a client via steam to reach more people, but that month to release had long been passed
Jessica Lyon: The underlying message about HTTP issues is that LL is aware of them now, and they are making great efforts to address them. A bit of a concern with this is that server side baking requires the user of HTTP and if the HTTP issues aren’t addressed, it’s going to complicate problems quite a bit.
Jessica Lyon: @ Joey, HTTP has been a problem for a lot of people, and it isn’t necessarily operating system specific. Often times there are routers that simply do not allow enough connections for SL to operate properly. Sometimes it’s ISP’s.
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Thanks Jessica
Carlos Whitefalcon: Before HTTP, LL used a different protocol I assume…
Jessica Lyon: Carlos, yes they did. They used UDP primarily I believe.
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): I thought I had read a link had been made with Steam already Joey. I will have a look for it. Perhaps I am wrong.
Carlos Whitefalcon: (I should read those links…)
Warthog Jun: UDP
Warthog Jun: and now TCP
JeanClaude Vollmar: HTTP has been a problem for me because of our HTTP filter. I have to fire up a browser (IE9 for example) so that it can authenticate me. Then I can fire up a viewer in my office.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): 33 on the sim
Jessica Lyon: often times bake fail and many many other bugs occur when communications are interupted between the viewer and the LL server. Network congestion can cause data to get lost, including appearance data.
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): @ Treacle – only thing on Steam from LL so far is the Patterns game
Jessica Lyon: Jean, if you have systems on your end that don’t like HTTP, you are going to have to find a reliable work around for that when server side baking goes live.
Warthog Jun: hahahahahahaha
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): oh ok.
Wrenaria Antiesse: this is the only LL post I can find about the steam announcement http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Second-Life-is-Expanding-to-Steam/ba-p/1637751
Jessica Lyon: HTTP is a fast protocol, but sometimes that can be a problem in itself.. it’s speed and the amount of data packaged
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): that must be it Joey, thank you.
Warthog Jun: most modern firewalls do packet inspection
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): LL posted about SSB last June…nothing since I could find
Warthog Jun: and filter http packets
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Just wish LL would be a bit more informative about things. We all know these are complex issues, but can’t tell normally that anyone is doing anything to address them
Jessica Lyon: no, most information about LL’s work you’ll find on SL bloggers.
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): We’ve got just a couple minutes left so we need to wrap up…
Jessica Lyon: from sl bloggers*
Warthog Jun: time to buy your network admin season tickets
Kali Pizzaro: I have suddenly got that upgrade your card but when i look for a new driver says it up to date – coincidence?
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Kali, what’s our topic for next week?
Jessica Lyon: Joey, I couldn’t agree more with you, the lack of communication benefits no one.
Jessica Lyon: Kali.. probably coincidence.. yes.
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): But thank you so much Jessica for keeping us informed about your work and for all we do for the community
Ellie Brewster: Worst run company EVER
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): all you do
Kali Pizzaro: all to be revealed Grizzla (otherwise know as I have not decided)
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): sorry typo
Jessica Lyon: my pleasure! It is all our pleasure!
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): thank you jessica… all of this info has been very helpful and will help me spread the word on what has been and what will be happening in this and other grids
Kali Pizzaro: thanks so much Jessice and welcome to VWER
David Greenwood (light.planer): Thank you Jessica!
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Jessica
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Many many thanks to Jessica for joining us and fielding questions on such an important topic!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Thank you Jessica
Ellie Brewster: Yes, Jessica, thanks so much!
JeanClaude Vollmar: Thanks Jessica! The info you’ve shared is welcome.
Wrenaria Antiesse: Thank you, Jessica!
Camie Rembrandt: ty Jessica!
Jessica Lyon: Keep an eye on those two bloggers btw folks. They are well informed, speak laymens and are very informational
Carlos Whitefalcon: thanks Jessica and VWER
Liana Hubbenfluff: Jessica thanks so much for all the work you and your team are doing. Woo!!
Kali Pizzaro: folks join the group if not already and please come back
Tori Landau: Many thanks Jessica, the information is much appreciated °͜°
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Good luck all, with the changes!
Kali Pizzaro: cheers all
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): The official meeting is over, but please feel free to hang around and chat “unofficially” as long as you like!
Jessica Lyon: Pleasure!
Galileo Zeplin: outstanding session today…thanks so much!
Ellie Brewster: See you next time, everyone
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Ellie, high-give on that
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Yes, ❤ Thanks Jessica and our sim hosts. Very informative. 🙂
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): Great meeting
Kali Pizzaro: the transcript will be available in a few weeks at www.vwer.org
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Worst run IT firm ever
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Grizzla
Jessica Lyon: I’ve got another half hour to kill 😉
Jessica Lyon: Hugs Treacle!
Ben (benji.nakamori): Thanks Jessica
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Hugs Jessica. 🙂
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): OH nice to have transcript posted already
Pathfinder Lester: great info, Jessica. Thank you.
Beth Ghostraven: Jessica, you’re welcome to come hang out in my pub if you want!
Naring’nari (joey.aboma): awesome
Carlos Whitefalcon: Is there a VWER group to join?
SaintLEOlions Zimer: thank you Jessica 🙂
Beth Ghostraven: all of you are!
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Carlos
Jessica Lyon: haha Beth! TY! I’ll stick around here though in case folks have other q’s
Claudia13 Rossini: waves to Beth
Xon Emoto: Thank you Jessica, great update!
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): jessica… what do you suggest about SSB and viewer choices for the future,,,, since you have 1/2 to kill
Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Take care everyone !! Byeeee.
Kali Pizzaro: join us here virtual worlds education roundtable
Birdie Newcomb: Thank you, Jessica . Hope to see you again here
Kali Pizzaro: or google + or facebook
Jessica Lyon: Kalanite, the nice thing about having viewer choices is that you have viewer choices. I’ll never tell someone one viewer is better than another because that is not a judgement anyone can make for someone else.
Jessica Lyon: Use the viewer you like best.
Brielle Coronet: <–loves singularity:)
Camie Rembrandt: great meeting! see you all next week! bye everyone 🙂
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): singularity seems like SSB enabled although http in the advanced area of the SL viewer is available
Kali Pizzaro: thanks Camie
Jessica Lyon: If you’ve got a viewer that you like best, that makes me happy! Even if it isn’t ours! Our mission is to improve the user experience and if someone elses viewer does that better than ours then your experience has been improved even without us lol. That’s a good thing
Oronoque Westland: I love Firestorm with its online support
Jessica Lyon: It is my expectation that all viewers will handle server side baking equally.
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): since most use and love firestorm, when will SSB be coming to that viewer… any clue?
Brielle Coronet: singularity is like LL viewer for dummies lol old viewer menus and very easy 🙂
Birdie Newcomb: Feels like I’ve been in a language class…
Claudia13 Rossini: (is not a dummie, uses a 1.22 viewer that never crashes, works smooth as silk for my building and has done so for years)
Beth Ghostravenfeels like a kindergartener in a grad class
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): again thank you Jessica for fielding these questions.. and your talk
Jessica Lyon: @ Kalanite.. great question! When will we release SSB in Firestorm.
Ed Merryman: jess is most likely on a SSB capable build of FS
Jessica Lyon: we don’t want to release it now.. because there is more code coming from LL.
Brielle Coronet: lol i mean for me, i needed a very simple viewer
Jessica Lyon: We will probably wait until LL is pretty much finished dumping new code into SSB to release it.
Jessica Lyon: so when we release firestorm with SSB will depend largely on when ssb is ready 😉
Jessica Lyon: I can’t give you a date on that lol
Birdie Newcomb: so, does this mean that browsers are out, again?
Jessica Lyon: browsers Birdie? you mean viewers? I don’t understand your question hon
Birdie Newcomb: smartphone access
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): k k… thank you. i use the SLviewer beta so i can see those changes as they develop… so that gives me a path …
Jessica Lyongoogles anti-patterns quick…
Jessica Lyon: oh, as far as smart phone apps for SL, there are a few. There’s one for Android and I think there is still one available for iPhone
Jessica Lyon: However, we might have an announcement about mobile compatibility in april hehe.
Jessica Lyon: Providing they are maintained though Birdie, they should have SSB ready too hopefully
Jessica Lyon: lol Euro.. i’ll have to read up on that one too!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): wooooo mobile!
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I heard that 🙂
Jessica Lyon: I’ll be honest here, as I always have been… I’m not a coder. I’m more of a translater and cat herder. I translate tech into layman terms as best I can.
David Greenwood (light.planer): @ Jessica is there anyone at Firestorm that is working on utilizing the Kinect or Leap Motion interface at the moment?
Jessica Lyon: Ignatius, don’t miss the ‘april’ bit either 😉
Liana Hubbenfluff: that’s awesome Jessica!
Jessica Lyon: There is not Light, no that’s beyond our scope at the moment
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Jessica, April is the beginning of fun-time for me, so that would be grand
Jessica Lyon: I do not Euro, no.
Pathfinder Lester: oh, I have a question. Are you looking at having Firestorm support the Oculus Rift? http://www.oculusvr.com/ Because that would be quite awesome. 😉
Jessica Lyon: Ignatius, i’ll be ‘fun’ I hope lol
David Greenwood (light.planer): I see. Thank you. Our lab is currently working on it in conjunction with Face Shift markerless facial motion capture techynology for real-time facial animation translation.
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): thanks james for engineering insights… as very relative
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): challenges after the school year end are fun. In the midst of the year, not so much
Jessica Lyon: I’ve seen that work Light.. don’t get me wrong, I am very excited to see that work and really hope to see it come to fruition.
David Greenwood (light.planer): it must. 🙂
Jessica Lyon: it’ll be a giant leap forward for virtual worlds
Jessica Lyon: just the kind of tech VW’s need IMO
Kali Pizzaro: i spotted the wee cheeky mobile hint too
David Greenwood (light.planer): Thank you all for a great round table (Last little bit any way) ! 🙂
Jessica Lyon: I’ll avoid talking about my opinion on LL’s management strategies 😉
Tori Landau: Bye °͜°
Jessica Lyon: I hope for the best though!
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Light
Kali Pizzaro: thanks all
Kali Pizzaro: take care and please do come again 🙂
Ben (benji.nakamori): Bye everyone, take care!
Kali Pizzaro: thanks again Jessica
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Bye Ben! TC
Kali Pizzaro: ok time to wrap up folks
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks again Jessica
Jessica Lyon: We strive to improve the user experience lol
Jessica Lyon: very welcome!
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): i have learned a ton… this helps explain all the wierdness and i thank Jessica, Beth and anyone i have missed that made this possible.
Liana Hubbenfluff: thanks all!
Pathfinder Lester: take care folks
Kali Pizzaro: welcome Kalanite
Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Thank you so much, Jessica
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We’ll try to fast-track this transcript, folks
Kalanite Bluestar (kalanite.bluestar): thx iggy
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks for a great VWER.
Jessica Lyon: ok that’s about my time too. Thanks for having me folks! Been a pleasure!
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Iggy.
Xon Emoto: Thank you again, have a great day (or evening) everybody. Cheerio from Hamburg.
Oronoque Westland: thanks everyone…bye for now
Zotarah Shepherd: Time to log off to save data. Rural living has its limits.
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Oro
Beth Ghostraven: Good to see you, Zo!
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Birdie
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Beth Good to see you too
Jessica Lyon: < ninja kitty vanishes >
Galileo Zeplin: whatta session…amazing
Galileo Zeplin: thanks so much, vwer-ers
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Big changes ahead
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): ao on
Galileo Zeplin: have great week…see ya next time
Kali Pizzaro: take care all
Kali Pizzaro: yep ok by all
Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): off to class. Bye all!