March 21, 2013: The New Linden Lab Education/Nonprofit Discount

March 21st, 2013 | Posted by iggy in Transcripts

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VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Based on a work at www.vwer.org.

Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable March 21, 2013

21st March Virtual Worlds Educators Roundtable

Topic:”Weren’t YOU Invited? The New Linden Education Discount & How to Lobby For It”

Photos by Sheila & Iggy. Join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!

Special note: After this transcript ran, Iggy e-mailed Zeeshan Linden. This reply came back, inviting members to contact Zeeshan about the discount:

If members of your group have received the special offer and have
specific questions about it, please ask them to reply to the email
they received with their questions so that we can address them
individually. If members of your group have not received the special
offer for their educational institution, but would be interested in
it, please have them contact me, and I would be happy to try to work
something out.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I’m Joe Essid, University of Richmond Writing Center & English Dept., and I’ve used SL or OpenSim in my teaching since 2007

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This semester I’ll work with 16 first-years and our Virtual House of Usher simulation

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at Glasgow Caledonian U, thanks to VWER’s Kali Pizzaro.

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Gentle

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today’s meeting is, “Weren’t YOU Invited? The New Linden Education Discount & How to Lobby For It”

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting in TEXT CHAT, so we do keep and publish a transcript of what is said in local chat. If you?ve not seen the transcripts, you should check them out they are an excellent information asset.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Spiral Theas: waves to Zotarah

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We meet each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please visit our web site http://www.vwer.org for transcripts, articles, and other advice.

Zotarah Shepherd waves back to Spiral

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I want to add that Beth is also transcribing today

Spiral Theas: Thanks, Beth.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): and keeping that in a Google Doc at:

Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Beth!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zv7zpdxEWePM35rklUnrfV3riq6Tmk0dY93HMN6TSPg/edit?usp=sharing

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, Koinup, and Flickr by our full name and Twitter @VWER.

Camie Rembrandt: ty Beth πŸ™‚

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: When you blog or tweet, please remember to use the hashtag #vwer

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let?s start as we always do with introductions.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Chris Robinson, virtual assistant, Georgia Gwinnett College, metro Atlanta

Zotarah Shepherd: I am working on an MA in Education at Sonoma State University in northern California. I finished my classes. My Thesis project: Teaching and Learning Life Awareness & Success Skills in Virtual Worlds is taking a loooong time.

Gentle Heron smiles at Zotarah.

Claudia13 Rossini: Claudia…builder

Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach and research in the iSchool at Sheffield University UK. And I found these cherry blossom wings FREE on marketplace https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/FNblossom-wings-sakura/3311401 just in case anyone else likes them

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): English instructor, National Parl Community College

Beth Ghostraven: Beth Ghostraven, middle school librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; unofficial liaison between education groups in SL; @booklady9

Gentle Heron: Virtual Ability, Inc.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): let’s see those typing hands πŸ™‚

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Dan Holt, English professor at Lansing Community College, Michigan.

Galileo Zeplin: ed johnson, board of regents, university system of georgia

Wrenaria Antiesse is Kimmy Hescock, social and immersive media manager at Oregon State University

Spiral Theas: Robin Heyden, Alameda California. Freelancer.

Treacle (treacle.darlandes) is co-owner of White Tiger Mentors and New Resident Services groups. Hello everyone. πŸ™‚

Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, City University of New York —- Caribbean Studies and Ed Tech mentor

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Other intros? Otherwise….going once…

Eme Capalini: Eme Capalini, Virtual Ability…building educational experiences and looking for LMs to educational experiences in SL

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): going twice…

Zotarah Shepherd smiles to Ellie

Ellie Brewster: Sorry I’m late, hi everybody

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Three times and SOLD to everyone (at half price) with the educator’s discount!

Beth Ghostraven: Hello, MIss Riel!

Ellie Brewster: What?

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe Iggy

Camie Rembrandt: LOL Iggy

Gabrielle Riel smiles and waves

Wrenaria Antiesse: πŸ˜€

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol

Ellie Brewster: Did anyone else get the e-mail that they’ve renewed the discount?

Oronoque Westland: only those with an offer, Iggy, or who ask

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Let’s begin today with a simple yes or no–did you get offered the new Linden Discount

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): no

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): no

Beth Ghostraven: no

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes and reqad your blog too Iggy.

Ellie Brewster: yes – Ohio State

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): n

Gentle Heron: no

Zotarah Shepherd: yes

Oronoque Westland: no

Spiral Theas: no

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): again a yes / no: know any friends who got the offer?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): yes

Spiral Theas: nope

Beth Ghostraven: no

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): no

Gentle Heron: yes

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): nope

Galileo Zeplin: yes

Wrenaria Antiesse: no

Sheila Yoshikawa: no, but I don’t renew til october and i haven’t specifically asked about it yet – though i intend to

Oronoque Westland: no 9none other than those friends here)

Sheila Yoshikawa: “no was me, i do know a friend that got it

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Here’s a more substantive question: what will/would you do if you could get the discount?

Sheila Yoshikawa: take it like a shot

Spiral Theas: Could you tell us how much the discount is?

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): take it!!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): my school: not interested in SL any more

Ellie Brewster: Back to the old price.

Spiral Theas: Which was?

Gabrielle Riel: Is it the 50% discount?

Ellie Brewster: Yes, that’s my problem, too. SL has totally lost credibility with my school, if I propose a project, I’m risking my reputation

Beth Ghostraven: Yay! FreeWee’s here!

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, there used to be a routine 50% discount

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Correct–50% off private estate tier, I think

Oronoque Westland: even with the discount, I cannot afford SL (no interest from my university)

Wrenaria Antiesse: take it! we’re staying here anyway….

Claudia13 Rossini: Iggy, are you saying LL has lowered the prices on educational sims?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): this ended abruptly in 2010, October

Zotarah Shepherd: I could not afford my island any more even with the discount.

Ellie Brewster: What if SL decides to change their minds again next year?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): or next week

Ellie Brewster: exactly

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Here’s the news: a number of educators and nonprofits were offered a new discount

Ellie Brewster: I wrote them back when they offered me the discount, bringing up points like this.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): New World Notes broke this story last week

FreeWee Ling: This is the first I’ve heard of it.

Gentle Heron: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2013/03/second-life-education-non-profit-discount.html

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Other educators have pressured LL and they offered it later, though these educators did not get the initial offer

Gabrielle Riel: I think that info was passed along to Hamlet. LL did not make an official announcement on it.

Gentle Heron: http://iggyo.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-sweet-smell-of-desperation.html

Oronoque Westland: one person who was not made an offer reported to the SLED list that she wrote asking for it and was granted

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): correct, Gabrielle. I asked Hamlet about that.

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes i saw that

Ellie Brewster: OK, listen up for a sec.

Spiral Theas: So, you just have to ask?

Ellie Brewster: I responded to the offer, because I wanted to know if anybody was listening to us. I didn’t get a response back from my mail, but I did get this:

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) pauses for Ellie

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): We just paid for the next year – I’m hoping they will at least give us an extra year. Not holding my breath that they would actually refund half of what we already paid them.

Ellie Brewster: Hey,

I am sure you already received the message that we have decided to reinstate our educational institute discount offer. I wanted to personally check in with you since we have been in contact before and see if that makes any difference for you and helps you get back into SecondLife for your educational needs.

Please let me know and I will be happy to work with you. If not, just let me know as well and I will be sure to take you off our distribution list.

Thanks

Zeeshan

Account Manager, Key Accounts

Sheila Yoshikawa: that’s annoying @grizzla, more than annoying!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): So this implies that the offer is to all schools

Ellie Brewster: I THINK that’s what it means.

Ellie Brewster: But does it?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) makes drumroll…that is the rumor

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes

130329_003

FreeWee Ling: That’s how I read it.

Spiral Theas: Confusing…

Ellie Brewster: I was looking for an announcement, didn’t find one.

Eme Capalini: @Grizzla, did you pay a year in advance?

Ellie Brewster: It’s kind of an unprofessional letter… What am I to think?

Gabrielle Riel: With the info leaked, it’s unlikely they can refuse the discount

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, we paid for a year.

Spiral Theas: Exactly, Ellie.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Let me take an informal poll here….

Sheila Yoshikawa: indeed the way they are handling it fully lives up to their reputation sigh

Oronoque Westland: that correspondence does not say how long it is reinstated for

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): Our university left for two months, was granted the discount, and the sim was rolled back as it was in about one week.

Spiral Theas nods

Beth Ghostraven pauses for Iggy

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): has your school reduced holdings in SL? Increased? shared with other schools? Left? since October 2010?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): we left

Sheila Yoshikawa: stayed the same

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Stayed the same.

Wrenaria Antiesse: same

Ellie Brewster: left in December

Oronoque Westland: my campus was never here…I am not certain about the other campuses of my univ that were in SL

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): We never had any holdings. Our college seems to be moving backwards in time rather than forwards.

Beth Ghostraven: didn’t have holdings to begin with, don’t plan to

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): Well I was on info island and had to move and start paying the tier myself

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): We only had one sim to begin with

Zotarah Shepherd: I have an educational non-profit but am not a school. I had the old discount back then on my sim but it is gone.

Beth Ghostraven: VSTE is looking to downsize if necessary

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol @prof

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so next question: would the discount lead to you grow? Stay as is? Something else?

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): I know that Virtual Harlem and Virtual Montemarte left.. and were offered the discount to come back, but had already committeds to Open Virtual Worlds…

Zotarah Shepherd: I have an inventory full of my sim builds and projects probably no one will ever see again except in photos. SO not likely to risk loosing more even if I got the offer for my MA thesis project.

Ellie Brewster: I think the question should be whether or not we could rely on the discount for a given period. It’s all about grant proposals.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): For now, we would stay the same – at least until we decide whether to make more extensive use of SL, have our students build, etc.

Sheila Yoshikawa: stay as is, with the 50% discount it becomes a more manageable sum to find/justify

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): thank you, Ellie. That’s a key point

Spiral Theas: Yes, Shiela. For sure.

FreeWee Ling: I’m affiliated with 2 universities, one is stable and likely to be here for a while, but the other is constantly debating whether to stay due to cost.

Oronoque Westland: even with the discount, I cannot afford a sim in SL….and as someone else said the rep of SL is poor so no chance of getting my campus interested

Beth Ghostraven: I think VSTE would probably stay the same

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): agrees with Shelia

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I hope to come away today with a series of questions we could put to LL, as a group if we decide to do so

Beth Ghostraven badly wants FreeWee’s sim to come back!

Spiral Theas: Really interesting to hear all of this. Thanks, all. Have to scoot.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): To us, the rep of SL is like the rep of the internet: anybody can find whatever they want

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Beth, there’s a lot I’d like to come back, including growth in Virtual worlds. But first we should find who to lobby and what to lobby for

Beth Ghostraven nods

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so who is the edu rep at LL now?

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): is there one?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I know they fired all their old hands long ago

Ellie Brewster: I think the only one who’s listening is the guy who wrote me that letter.

FreeWee Ling: And is lobbying even necessary? Or do we just tell them we want the discount?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): give his name again

Ellie Brewster: Zeeshan Qasim

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @FreeWee…that’s up for discussion. What *would* work best?

Oronoque Westland: there is “strength in numbers”

Sheila Yoshikawa: indeed

FreeWee Ling: Sound like they’re testing the waters with the sims that have closed. If they need a boost, a petition might be useful.

Beth Ghostraven: Was Pathfinder Lester formerly LL’s education rep?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Beth, before his job was cut, yes

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Ellie, I’m not sure Zeeshan is “listening” so much as that he’s been given permission by the decision-makers

Ellie Brewster: If you do outreach, and want to do exchanges with your class and other classes, SL is still the best place to be. If I were running the company, I would get my skates on and try to save what remains of their reputation with the Educational community.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): he brought in the UT system

Claudia13 Rossini: i think someone named ‘Claudia’ was

Beth Ghostraven: UT?

Beth Ghostraven: Claudia, you were the LL ed rep?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): U Texas–13 campuses each got 3 sims in SL

Prof. DeSantis (patois.desantis): are they still here?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) grins at the thought of Claudia as LL CEO πŸ™‚

Gabrielle Riel: I think the key (for people to stay or return) is to get a confirmation on how long this discount lasts. Is it for a year? More? Unknown length?

Claudia13 Rossini: no Beth, but if i’m remembering correctly her name was Claudia Linden

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): No different Claudia was ed rep when I came

Beth Ghostraven: oh ok

Ellie Brewster: Claudia was cool. Claudia Lamoureaux

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): yes Claudia 13 It was Claudia Linden

Beth Ghostraven: don’t confuse me! It’s too easy to do!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Prof….a few. The faculty member at UT who ran the initiative died, and his successor had a tough time with campus compliance and interest..It declined

Claudia13 Rossini: if i was in charge edu sims should be free

Oronoque Westland: Claudia on horseback

Sheila Yoshikawa: it’s actually, from a marketing lore point of view, that they haven’t aimed first of all to get the continued loyalty of EXISTING customers, that is the most cost-effective way of maintaining revenue, getting ex subscribers to resubscribe has a lower cost-efficiency

Sheila Yoshikawa: I meant it is “bizarre” from a marketing point of view

Sheila Yoshikawa: I used to teach about services marketing

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) agrees w Sheila whole-heartedly – It always amazes me that they keep trying to drum up new business when happy existing residents would be their best marketing

Gabrielle Riel: I don’t think there was a marketing plan, as they were doing it on the down-low and the info leaked.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): So does the group think that going one by one to Zeeshan would be best? or should our edu groups send a polite notice to him? Ask him to come to VWER?

Ellie Brewster: Did they really think the information wasn’t going to leak?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m willing to e-mail him and wave my C.V. and PhD like a geek-flag

FreeWee Ling: I imagine they’re looking to boost diversity in their customer base and to try and increase concurrency.

Gabrielle Riel: Agreed Ellie. Not smart.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Asking him to come to VWER would be great but given our past history inviting Lindens, I would expect the same answer

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Grizzla, they used to come every year

Oronoque Westland: I think they went after those who left because some really big image sims were lost as a result…and LL assumes those who stayed through all theri expletive deleted will stay no matter what (not saying that this view is accurate, only that this is how LL thinks)

Ellie Brewster: We also don’t know what authority he has. Could just be a keen intern.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @ellie they don’t seem to understand the consumer power of social / virtual media lol

Ellie Brewster: πŸ˜‰

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Claudia Linden used to come often.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Oro agree that must be their thinking

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Keen interns turn into CEOs (or get fired)

Beth Ghostraven: We don’t necessarily want authority at this point; just reliable information

Ellie Brewster: Claudia was super. And she would meet with you, and talk with you, and she had a meditation gazebo that was soooo peaceful

FreeWee Ling: It would be best to start off with a polite inquiry on behalf of the group. Get aggressive later as necessary.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Terrance Linden was the last LL edu rep who did a “Linden Perspective” for VWER

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): @Gabrielle & FreeWee – true, my point was that if they try to increase diversity etc while they’re idiotically p*ssing off existing users, they need a better strategy πŸ™‚

Beth Ghostraven: I wish Path was here to give us some perspective

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Terrance Linden appears to be deceased πŸ™‚

Ellie Brewster: virtually deceased, I hope.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): one hopes

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): So I do have a few more Qs of substance about this situation

Ellie Brewster: Maybe if they kept their employees around longer they would have a better-run company

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): LOL the last thing I heard Path say about Linden Lab (if I heard him correctly) is that he no longer tries to understand or explain what they do

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I was ticked off at my blog about this, at first, because it seemed selective

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but now…I wonder. If they roll it out to all of us, how can they do so in a way that values our contributions to SL?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): What would make you happy?

Oronoque Westland: I think it was selective, Iggy, only when the “secret” got out LL could no longer hope to make it selective

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 1) Make an official statement

Beth Ghostraven: Do they have a way to define “educational sims”?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 2) Define what an “educational or noprofit sim” means

Oronoque Westland: were the non-profits included in the offer?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): yep, Oro, some where invited, Hamlet’s post implied

Eme Capalini: Terrence Linden hasn’t been in SL since 10/17/2011

Ellie Brewster: Understand that a partnership with the educational community not only improves the SL environment, but assures that institutions will build infrastructure that trains students to use SL. There are 50,000 students at my institution. Imagine what it would do for SL if we ran introductory courses in here?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): I’d like to see Rod Humble come to one of our meetings and explain the discount.

Oronoque Westland: that is a question that needs a definitive/official response

FreeWee Ling: They gave like 29 sims to LEA for arts.

Ellie Brewster: And I believe that was pretty successful?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I don’t think we’d get ol’ Rodvic, but If I ask this Zeeshan to recommend a Linden to visit, in case he can’t…

FreeWee Ling: Certainly

130329_001

Oronoque Westland: would the cost be waived for anyone who gave up a sim or sims and wants them resurrected?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 3) Who is covered? Existing owners or those like my school who left?

Oronoque Westland: it is Easter coming up, after all

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia), like Santa, is making a list, if you have not noticed

Ellie Brewster: ;-D

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): clarify something for me, if you did get the offer–is it for one year only? Two?

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): About Linden Lab defining educational use: http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/woodbury-u-banned-from-second-life-again/23352

Ellie Brewster: I think one way to get their attention is to demonstrate the number of people we represent. Perhaps a shout out to the SLed list, and to the Virtual Worlds listserv, as well as ISTE, VISTE, the whole crew?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Understandable, Iggy, but if they really want to build up the education/non profit presence, they need the big guns to come talk. The biggest issue is stability. If an educational/non-profit institution cannot rely on several years of stable pricing, especially after their yanking the discount out from under them, then there’s no way anyone is going to jump back in or expand at any appreciable level.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) grins at those Woodbury scamps…keep in mind they were hotbed of griefers and virtual hillbillies we won’t name

Galileo Zeplin: renaissance island was recently renewed, i understand, so it seems that at least some public libraries qualified for discounts

Beth Ghostraven snorts at “virtual hillbillies”

FreeWee Ling: and is the first step in LL discounting all sims?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): The first step is for LL to admit they f-ed up.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 4) Will discount be applied to everyone? How long a contract?

Claudia13 Rossini: you believe in the tooth fairy too Dan?

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): lol

Claudia13 Rossini: grins

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 5) Admit they f’ed up and burn Mark Linden, the former CEO in effigy

Ellie Brewster: 5) Clear definition of LL’s philosophy in dealing w/ educational community.

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): They apparently do, if they think educational institutions are going to jump in fully.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): okay, 5) is not making the real list. Pity.

Claudia13 Rossini: i saw take the savings and run…..

Claudia13 Rossini: nods to Dan….but if those of us with existing edu sims get a discount.yippee

Ellie Brewster: No point, Claudia. Why spend all that work and money to develop something, if you don’t think it will last?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): has anyone SEEN the contract? Is the discount guaranteed for a full year?

Claudia13 Rossini: i don’t think anything lasts Ellie…..but i think this medium deserves a shot

Beth Ghostraven: I would want it guaranteed for longer than that. It takes time to pull people onboard in an educational institution.

Ellie Brewster: I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect some kind of commitment, though.

Oronoque Westland: I do not think a year is long enough for those who left, given the costs they incurred

Claudia13 Rossini: no, a good commitment seems a very fair request

Ellie Brewster: As Beth says, the commitment on our side goes further than just building a classroom. It’s a huge effort.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’d add a 5) here: 5) Let educators with an OAR file from open sim have a one-time import to SL as a bonus for returning

Ellie Brewster: Cagey one, Iggy.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’ll pull together mis list now and see if you think I’m insane (about the list)

Beth Ghostraven: If they’re waving a carrot, it’s sensible to check out the carrot before we take a bite

Ellie Brewster: Although I support what’s going on in Open Sim. I’m hoping we can make bridges.

FreeWee Ling: They probably look at the LEA sims and think, artists have no money–at least educators are willing to pay SOMETHING.

Oronoque Westland: do those who return have to pay that initial fee again for their sim to be established?

Beth Ghostraven: oh Iggy, you’re insane in a good way, lol

Ellie Brewster: Good question, Oro

FreeWee Ling: Ya, good one, Oro

Oronoque Westland: that’s a big cost

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) for some reason, has the word “crackpot” going through her head…

Claudia13 Rossini: lol

Beth Ghostraven: lol

Oronoque Westland: a crackpot carrot?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): my facebook picture of me standing beside a road-sign in Ireland with “Crackpot” and an arrow pointing to me..Grizzla loves that pic πŸ˜€

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): okay, my crackpot list:

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 1) Make an official statement

2) Define what an “educational or nonprofit sim” means

3) Who is covered? Existing owners or those like my school who left?

4) Will discount be applied to everyone? How long a contract?

5) Let educators with an OAR file from open sim have a one-time import to SL as a bonus for returning

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes I made it my desktop wallpaper.

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Just kidding!

Claudia13 Rossini: we like the fact that you are clearly labeled Iggy

Sheila Yoshikawa: fangirl grizzla

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I know #5 is the least likely, but what else should we look for?

Ellie Brewster: 6) Statement of LL philosophy to educational community

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Grizzla, I should put that pic of you on my computer with you holding that skull by your head

Claudia13 Rossini: set up fees….as someone mentioned before

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): ha haaa

Gentle Heron: right Ellie, or a named Linden as contact for the education community

Ellie Brewster: or BOTH, Gentle.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): good…what do you mean by fees, Claudia?

Beth Ghostraven: I think we want to avoid the impression that we’re waving burning torches and pitchforks

Oronoque Westland: if someone left, do they need to pay the set up fee again for a sim?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 6) Designate an official LL contact for educators and non-profits

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) agrees with Beth

Claudia13 Rossini: well if you’re returning you shell out that pricey purchase/set up fee..plus tier

Gabrielle Riel: Those torches are getting low for having burned so long πŸ™‚

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): You can buy an “angry mob” kit at Velde’s, one of the RP stores with torches and pitchforks, Beth

Oronoque Westland: those with dreadlocks should stay away from angry mobs

Beth Ghostraven: haha that’s awesome!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so you folks think they should waive the set up free as a loyalty bonus?

Oronoque Westland: for returnees, yes

Claudia13 Rossini: actually yes

Beth Ghostraven: or as an incentive

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): they have had holidays on it before

Beth Ghostraven: it can’t be a loyalty bonus if they left

FreeWee Ling: Certainly. Not a bonus. An incentive

Beth Ghostraven: they could provide a loyalty bonus to those who stayed, perhaps

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 7) Waive set-up fee for those educational and non-profits who have left SL and return.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Beth a loyalty bonus for those who stay would be the discounted tier

Ellie Brewster: Pie. I want pie. And some licorice allsorts

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’m serious about posting the list to my blog so it will run at NWN when I ping Hamlet about it

Claudia13 Rossini: i want chocolate!

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, real chocolate

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 8) Free chocolate

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Savignon Blanc?

Beth Ghostraven: chocolate wine

Claudia13 Rossini: we have standards though..no Hershey’s……GODIVA TRUFFLES

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I never got a pony, either

Sheila Yoshikawa looks faint

Beth Ghostraven: haha

Wrenaria Antiesse: mmm chocolate

Ellie Brewster: chocolate and dark red wine. My favourite combination

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): they actually killed Pony Linden off

Beth Ghostraven: or a jet pack either, right, Iggy?

FreeWee Ling: For loyalty I want the discounts to be retroactive to the time they doubled the cost. πŸ˜‰

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Path came as Pony Linden one time

Sheila Yoshikawa: how did they kill him?

Beth Ghostraven laughs out loud in RL

Ellie Brewster: The same way they got Kenny

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): I like his huge robot av

FreeWee Ling: poisoned pixels…

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’d like to see some of that whimsy return. Pony was a shared avatar to greet new residents and give them pony rides. I am not making that up

Ellie Brewster: Great idea

FreeWee Ling: sweet

Oronoque Westland: they gave up the pony but kept the sxxt

Beth Ghostraven: yes, whimsy is part of what makes SL great!

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes, including sweaters

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): There are dark rumors, Shiela, about what happened to Pony Linden (graphic image follows from Alphaville Herald): http://alphavilleherald.com/2010/08/pony-linden-fed-to-zombies.html

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): OH NO

Beth Ghostraven laughs harder

Galileo Zeplin: hehe

Claudia13 Rossini: shades of The Godfather

Sheila Yoshikawa: I NEED wine after looking at that. Just too too horrible

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): It does illustrate a “turn” in LL since Philip Rosedale got less involved

FreeWee Ling: that’s graphic…

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) pours wine for Shiela

Ellie Brewster: That’s a good point about whimsy. Not so much of that around any more. Remember the rumours of alien avatars who would kidnap avatars — it kept being reported, but nobody believed them.

Wrenaria Antiesse: poor pony

Sheila Yoshikawa thanks Iggy and knocks back the bottle

Claudia13 Rossini: it’s the first really good break we’ve had in years

Ellie Brewster: I’ll drink to that.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Linden Lab cannot do everything themselves, but I think they can make the world more, well, playful again

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): so should I post our list? Here it is again

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): 1) Make an official statement

2) Define what an “educational or nonprofit sim” means

3) Who is covered? Existing owners or those like my school who left?

4) Will discount be applied to everyone? How long a contract?

5) Let educators with an OAR file from open sim have a one-time import to SL as a bonus for returning

6) Designate an official LL contact for educators and non-profits

7) Waive set-up fee for those educational and non-profits who have left SL and return.

Ellie Brewster: Is there some way to set up a petition, so people can sign?

Ellie Brewster: Or perhaps we can just publish the url to your blog, and people can comment?

Sheila Yoshikawa: that could work

FreeWee Ling: I think before we make demands, we should find out what their plan is.

Claudia13 Rossini: i agree Free

Ellie Brewster: Good luck with that

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @FreeWee…I don’t mind e-mailing Zeeshan, but I’m a born rabble rouser, especially since this is my last hurrah teaching with Virtual Worlds

Claudia13 Rossini: just because LL is nasty, we shouldn’t be..take the polite high road first……then if that doesn’t workk…….kill em

FreeWee Ling: You don’t know if you don’t ask. Try not to be confrontational from the start.

Beth Ghostraven: Yes, I agree, Claudia

Beth Ghostraven: & FreeWee

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes agree, polite approach to start with

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): So I’ll e-mail him / her first, with clarification. Then run our manifesto? 7 Theses? Stone tablet of the law?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): None of these demands are impolite. The list is not parallel grammatically, however.

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): And ask to meet at a VWER meeting.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): yep

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): We have five minutes remaining…other issues and questions?

Ellie Brewster: I’ve tried. He slips through your fingers

Beth Ghostraven: Yes, VWER is a good central meeting point

Ellie Brewster: Future topic Ð

Claudia13 Rossini: shave his dreadlocks, maybe like Samson….

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) listens carefully to Ellie

Ellie Brewster: MOOCs – all the rage, everyone wants one, nobody knows what they are. How do virtual worlds fit in?

Sheila Yoshikawa: good topic! could be a future discussion session?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): hear hear to that (not the shaving idea)

Ellie Brewster: yes, I’d like that

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Every administrator wants one.

Beth Ghostraven: Ellie, that does sound like an interesting topic

Claudia13 Rossini: (promises to at least sharpen the razor…a bit)

Zotarah Shepherd: Great topic Ellie

Oronoque Westland: Spiff at Virtual Pioneers has been running a MOOC in combo with a grid…he might be a good presenter

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Dan, just as 6 years back, every admin wanted an SL island?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): MOOC = new shiny?

Beth Ghostraven: and no, we don’t want to take away Iggy’s superpowers, just hold them in reserve in case they’re needed

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): New shiny and one teacher for every 100,000 students!

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): Yes Dan

Ellie Brewster: They’re dreaming in colour

Oronoque Westland: only 100m? that’s a mini-MOOC

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) grins “exactly, Dan…a sly way to get rid of pesky profs like..you? me?”

FreeWee Ling: MOOCs are going to transform higher ed. Bricks and mortar campuses are on their way out. Education in the cloud. Bet on it.

Shailey Garfield: Yes, good point, Dan

Sheila Yoshikawa: trying to remember where I was reading a critique, that admins had seen elearning in general as a new was of cutting costs, but it emerged that good elearning takes more time if anything, so hoping that MOOCs will be the new way of cutting costs and raising revenue

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Until they crash and burn, Free.

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @Freewee, you earned what I call “The Brick” for a crazy generalization

Ellie Brewster: They’ll soon find out, though, that the 1/10,000 student/teacher ratio doesn’t work. Let’s be ready.

Ellie Brewster: Anyway, I’ve got to run. What a great session!

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): Brick and Mortar campuses will stay for many traditional students–our parents here pay $53K every year precisely for face-to-face learning in small groups

Zotarah Shepherd waves to Ellie.

Ellie Brewster: See you all next week!

Oronoque Westland: @Ellie, they don’t want our students to learn anyway, only be trained

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): ouch, iggy!

Treacle (treacle.darlandes): Thank you everyone, very interesting learning. Bye and take care. πŸ™‚

FreeWee Ling: You’re telling me this meeting is not face to face in a small group?

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): but that is for next time…I’ll be ready to talk about why I think MOOCS are the next “hype” when we meet

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): thanks, all

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): YEs Iggy , great meeting

Claudia13 Rossini: lol Free

Zotarah Shepherd: It feels like it is Free

Sheila Yoshikawa: I lurked in Edinburgh’s MOOC – that seemed very good – well planned – but it was based on a good pedagogic strategy and lots of elearning experience

Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Iggy

Oronoque Westland: @Iggy, in NYC we transform our old school buildings into condo apartments

Prof. Dan (profdan.netizen): Till next time…

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): I’ll e-mail ZeeShan (politely, grumble) then post the list if we get that stony LL silence

Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks Iggy

Sheila Yoshikawa: much appreciated

Zotarah Shepherd: or MUVEs v MOOCs?

Shailey Garfield: Thanks, Iggy for all your efforts.

Zotarah Shepherd smiles at Sheila

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Yes thanks Iggy – we hope you feel appreciated when we lock you up to keep you from leaving

Claudia13 Rossini: we’ll just refuse to let him leave….

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): @FreeWee, it is, but we are not Millennials who want caterered food, a gym, and lots of one-on-one teaching in a traditional setting. That sort of school has a secure future (which is why I’m staying here)

Zotarah Shepherd waves bye to Oro

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia) struggles to leave and find himself tied to his chair “CLAUDIA!”

Oronoque Westland: bye Zo

Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Oro

Samantha Chester (sam55.chester): great to see everyone

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): take care all

Claudia13 Rossini: yes Iggy dear?

Beth Ghostraven: Good to see all of you!

Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid) high-fives with Claudia

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe

Galileo Zeplin: thanks iggy and all….great session

FreeWee Ling: Thanks all. Good meeting.

Claudia13 Rossini: i promise to feed you

Iggy (ignatius.onomatopoeia): shouts: chocolate and wine, Claudia

 

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