Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: December 8, 2016
Topic: All I Want for Christmas
Photos by Beth Ghostraven
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable. We meet on Thursdays at 12 noon SLT for an hour. 8pm In UK, 3pm EST. VWER is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education in virtual worlds. This is a public meeting, so we will be keeping and publishing a transcript. The transcripts can be found at http://www.vwer.org. The VWER continues to develop a community of educators from around the world.
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The topic for this week’s meeting will be: “All I want for Christmas …” Let’s start as we normally do and introduce ourselves. As usual we will be in text chat for the whole session.
Birdie Newcomb: world peace…
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney, PhD, Lecturer Nursing, Glasgow Caledonian University Scotland VWER Lead
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Birdie
Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach and research in the Information School, University of Sheffield, UK
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, college publisher
Beth Ghostraven: Beth Ghostraven, middle school teacher-librarian in RL and owner of the Book and Tankard Pub in Victoria City, Caledon in SL; Communications Chair for the VWBPE Conference; unofficial liaison between education groups in SL. For information on events for the educational groups that I work with, see the ISTE VEN Massive Open Online Calendar at http://venetwork.weebly.com/calendar.html. I’ll be taking photos to publish with the transcript; if you have any objection, please IM me.
Camie Rembrandt: Vocational/Professional Trainer with a Postgraduate Diploma in Education (E-Learning Pedagogy). Digital Storyteller. Exophonic Writer. Currently hosting “Once Upon a Winter Story” – a Christmas Literature Quiz with Prizes – at Chilbo.
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Selby Evans, Blogger, THE DICKENS PROJECT 2016 Opens December 10th http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2016/12/2016-edu-write-dickens-project-2016.html
Shanti (shanti.suntzu): Shanti. I teach psychology in RL
Sheila Yoshikawa: Dickens project should be good as usual!
Beth Ghostraven: I’ll be exhibiting for my shop, Ghostraven Professional Attire, at the OpenSim Community Conference this weekend http://conference.opensimulator.org/2016/
Stranger Nightfire: Stranger here, wandering SL bum
Edward Tarber: Edward Tarber, Computer Scientist and IT entrepreneur, virtual world developer, interested in education, teaching and learning use cases
Lyr Lobo: Lyr Lobo, Cynthia Calongne, Professor, software engineer, author, and researcher in VR since 1995 *chuckles* taught 50+ university classes in SL; and an organizing committee member for OSCC
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Ed Tarber has a virtual world accessed by browser.
Camie Rembrandt: @Selby, just shared THE DICKENS PROJECT 2016 on scoop.it and twitter
Sheila Yoshikawa: So on facebook I advertised this as: “The topic for this week’s meeting will be: “All I want for Christmas …” What would you like as your virtual worlds Christmas present? What would help most in your teaching? in your learning? for your virtual worlds fun? What would be on your present list if the Lindens were acting as Santa?” I thought perhaps we could start with TEACHER: What would be on your virtual worlds present list you sent to santa? as a teacher? Would it be a new virtual world? More students? some sort of gadget? Different colleagues?
Beth Ghostraven: a job teaching in virtual worlds, lol
Sheila Yoshikawa: with pay, Beth, I presume!
Beth Ghostraven: oh, yes
Birdie Newcomb: and not just Linden dollars..
Beth Ghostraven: haha yes, Birdie
Sheila Yoshikawa: nope, real money
Camie Rembrandt: A virtual world as good as SL but without all the bad publicity
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): What I want is a browser based viewer
Kali Pizzaro: folks to see the light and realise this is not as hard as they think
Camie Rembrandt: yes, a browser based virtual world as good as SL (i.e. with the same amount/quality content) would be great
Kali Pizzaro: yes browser based would be good
Birdie Newcomb: I’d like to see a map of the colleges or schools, perhaps a universal transporter. — to go visiting
Lyr Lobo: You mean beyond Bright Canopy or what we’re working on in MOSES< Thinkerer?
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Yes, Lyr — MOSES objective
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): a built in video recorder in the browser would be great 🙂
Stranger Nightfire: I remember the guy behind Rockcliffe University once bemoaning the fact that if a class is given in SL everyone expects it to be free. I think that had been the original idea behind Rockcliffe to be a real educational institute
Beth Ghostraven: also, Santa, I’d like an Opinionator
Shanti (shanti.suntzu): I want the same as Birdie…. plus a browser based viewer…
Lyr Lobo: I was wondering if anyone tried Bright Canopy?
Camie Rembrandt: @Birdie that is technically possible, maybe not so easy to achieve for lack of organizaition?
Birdie Newcomb: yes, that too
Beth Ghostraven: Is Bright Canopy still a thing?
Lyr Lobo: not sure, looking at their site
Lyr Lobo: https://www.brightcanopy.com/
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Ed has part — the viewer works in the browser.
Birdie Newcomb: what is Bright Canopy?
Lyr Lobo: Browser-based viewer for Second Life @Birdie
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Cannot say I have looked at bright Canopy
Birdie Newcomb: Ah, I’ll look into it
Shanti (shanti.suntzu): Oh so it exists… got to try it.
Sheila Yoshikawa: So so far we’ve got “folks to see the light”, a browser based world, a built in video recorder, a teleport-enabled-map of universities, an opinionator, and a paid job as a teacher in virtual worlds
Beth Ghostraven: (of course, the Opinionator is already in existence)
Lyr Lobo: for topics, Sheila?
Sheila Yoshikawa: no as wishes @Lyr
Camie Rembrandt: I use Lumiya Viewer http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/ on my Android tablet – would it really be so difficult to have something like that run on a web browser?
Edward Tarber: more important than the viewer itself are the tools it will provide: like a presenter, a virtual black-/white-board, virtual post-its, …
Sheila Yoshikawa: think I had “twelve days of Christmas” mentally running
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Bright Canopy is Server Side rendering and costs.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes, actually I though Bright Canopy had faded away – is it still live?
Lyr Lobo: I want a development tool for building simulations and offering 360 degree 3D VR content with interaction–so the 3D videos are not linear, but adapt to our presence and how we interact with the story and change it
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Browser based viewer renders on the user’s graphics system and doesn’t cost extra
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): free uploads of mesh 🙂 a raccoon can dream.
Camie Rembrandt: 🙂
Sheila Yoshikawa: In formulating wishes, I realise how ignorant I am about the state of development of various initiatives, e.g. oculus rift and SL; because one of my wishes would be to help people see the light by showing them how SL has got all these scenes and scenarios waiting for their VR glasses please
Stranger Nightfire: yes Ed, about tools, can anyone believe how limited the functionality of SL notecards is to this day?
Edward Tarber: yes, indeed … technically it is not so difficult to simply “write” on any texture
Sheila Yoshikawa: notecards where you could do bold and italics ….
Stranger Nightfire: I guess that will be my wish, a reasonable up to date notecard system
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Open sim has capability to write on a prim, but it does not work well
Edward Tarber: I am writing “advanced notecards” on my todo list for cybalounge right now :))
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): in here to write on a prim does it require to use a script and notecard?
Sheila Yoshikawa: something to create poster without having to do them externally and then upload them ….
Birdie Newcomb: So, is Santa listening, taking notes?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I sincerely hope so
Sheila Yoshikawa: we have the eggnog and cookies laid out for him
Beth Ghostraven looks around for cookies
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): looks around for eggnog
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol I will move them over @Beth @Delightful
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Thanks Sheila
Lyr Lobo: The challenge, Sheila, is in head tracking and providing a comfortable visual experience with your head-mounted display device. SL was designed to support the testing of haptic interfaces, but lacks the drivers and integrated usability features to make wearing an Oculus while in world comfortable and visually appealing.
Lyr Lobo: when you wear Google Cardboard with a 3D Vr app, you can look around the 360 degree field of vision for how it was filmed…which is breathtaking when the content is designed for it *grins*
Kali Pizzaro: 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: so what about as learners, and for fun?
Sheila Yoshikawa: any virtual world wishes that would just make life happier or calmer or richer?
Kali Pizzaro: For learners, an acceptance from the university that this is part of their normal learning ‘place’–so if they used it frequently then it would become a norm and much more extincting than BB blackboard!
Lyr Lobo: but you have an important distinction in these worlds that we lack in 3D VR – interaction with content, interaction with one another socially, and a sense of our bodies and presence
Kali Pizzaro: yes I agree–a sense of place of presence and social presence so presence to place and people
Lyr Lobo: Selby addresses it with the browser-based viewer so we don’t have to wear a HMD and have interaction with a simpler, easy to use interface that does not require a download or updates
Kali Pizzaro: sorry slipping into the PhD findings there lol
Lyr Lobo grins
Lyr Lobo: always a delight, Kali
Sheila Yoshikawa: eggnog and cookies, my wish is your command
Sheila Yoshikawa: or do I mean your wish is my command?
Sheila Yoshikawa: anyway
Sheila Yoshikawa: there they are on the table
Lyr Lobo grins at Sheila
Edward Tarber: the virtual world should “feel” like an extension of the real world not like an imitation and/or replacement
Lyr Lobo smiles and nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: ah AI so you drop the notecard in and it displays on the prim
Birdie Newcomb: thanks for the eggnog, delish
Al Supercharge: yes and the notecard can contain html
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I think we have 2 directions — Tech-based and people-based. Tech-based will appeal to techies and people-based will appeal to everyone else/
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually one thing I need for Xmas is more time or courage to start talking more with students and colleagues about SL. I sort of stopped doing it a few years ago; I think I should try and re-engage
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Selby–yes I’m in the “everyone else” camp
Stranger Nightfire: I think maybe virtual is about to get its second wind
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): I am just getting started 🙂
Stranger Nightfire: a lot of stuff on the horizon
Beth Ghostraven: Kali, did you see this? “Immersion Revisited: a Review of Existing Definitions of Immersion and Their Relation to Different Theories of Presence” https://jyx.jyu.fi/dspace/bitstream/handle/123456789/52083/URN:NBN:fi:jyu-201611174652.pdf?sequence=1
Stranger Nightfire: that looks interesting
Kali Pizzaro: thanks @Beth another taxonomy of immersion lol
Lyr Lobo smiles and nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks Beth
Kali Pizzaro: and presence
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Thanks for the paper Beth. Nice Christmas gift!
Sheila Yoshikawa: so it seems like we have fewer wishes to add as learners or for learners. Perhaps some of them are just the same as for us as teachers! and no one has any purely recreational virtual worlds wish list?
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): If you have a browser-viewer anyone who can use a browser could come in and visit your virtual world.
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): Teachers are wishing for the benefit of the students
Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually “more prims per region” would have been a wish, but I was so used to thinking it was hopeless to wish for it I stopped doing it
Sheila Yoshikawa: it HAS made me think there may be other desirable changes that I have just given up on, like the notecards mentioned earlier
Lyr Lobo: and now you have it, with 22,500 prims, eh, per region
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, I was SOOO excited when I got them on my mainland plot
Lyr Lobo grins and nods
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): it is a wonderful increase 🙂
Sheila Yoshikawa: ok, it’s a perennial topic but – what is our wish from Santa Linden? Is it a subset of what we’ve just been talking about?
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): no lag
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): One of the OpenSim devs said to me “I don’t need a browser-viewer.” I said “Neither do I for myself — but I want it for the new people I want to bring in.”
Sheila Yoshikawa: more avatars per sim; as a shopaholic I’m tired of trying to get into events which are full for the first couple of days
Sheila Yoshikawa: at the moment “no lag” and “more avatars” are incompatible
Birdie Newcomb: how many does it take to crash a sim?
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually a wider range of default settings, so with one click you could minimise the amount you saw of other avatars, close down thee draw distance etc
Stranger Nightfire: I don’t think we will see more avatars per sim in SL, I don’t think their system is very scalable that way; but we certainly could see it in some of the new worlds that are coming
Sheila Yoshikawa: easier for newbies and time saving for residents
Edward Tarber: an average avatar uses up to 150MB of memory on the server running the sim
Kali Pizzaro: a better search although i think not having a great search function actually means people have to find other strategies and I suppose one of those is to ‘connect’ to others and build networks 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Kali!! with my subject area I should have thought of that first!
Kali Pizzaro: 😉 well I let you off I studied it for five years lol
Kali Pizzaro: sneaky
Al Supercharge: curious — what would be your no. 1 search ?
Sheila Yoshikawa: also on Marketplace, possibly they could review the categories they have
Stranger Nightfire: I think the search engine in SL Marketplace has got to be the worst one I have ever seen
Sheila Yoshikawa: Search is obviously related to what is searchable
Edward Tarber: it’s not the search engine alone … the problem is with the data, too. In order to have a great search you need a lot of indexing on the data
Camie Rembrandt: 100% agree with @Selby: [12:33] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): One of the OpenSim devs said to me “I don’t need a browser-viewer.” I said “Neither do I for my self — but I want it for the new people I want to bring in.”
Kali Pizzaro: I think part of the problem that people brought up in my study was that something related to health may be on part of an uni island but that would not find it if you just searched for heart health for example
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Edward, that’s what I meant – notably the metadata in objects
Edward Tarber: exactly 🙂
Sheila Yoshikawa: which varies wildly depending on who created it. I think more tagging allowed for regions
Kali Pizzaro: yes and different viewers have different search results even if you search for the same thing
Sheila Yoshikawa: more sophisticated–places rather than regions, I meant
Kali Pizzaro: nod
Al Supercharge: 76 Results for “health” in Places
Kali Pizzaro: plus it costs to advertise your place
Stranger Nightfire: and would it not be great to be able to add tags to the stuff in our inventory?
Kali Pizzaro: yes AI but are they specific
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): If places had web pages, you could use Google search
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Crowdsourced metadata tagging for accessible viewing and searching. That would be awesome, especially when virtual environments connect with the physical world
Al Supercharge: finding stuff in inventory is major problem
Eli (eliana.zaytsev): *waves*
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Stranger yes – I do rename things when I can, to make them more findable, but sometimes they are no mod. The search function in inventory – that’s the worst of the lot
Edward Tarber: it simply does a full text search … ermm .. maybe not even “full” … lol
Beth Ghostraven: at least I have control over what some things are named in my inventory
Darkejade Tempest (darkejade): it helps to search by item type too i find in the inventory. such as just narrowing it down to a script.
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually that would perhaps be more doable than some things, improving inventory search – but I don’t know what the programming behind that function is, presumably searching a directory?
Sheila Yoshikawa: but yes – being able to add tags to every item including ones you couldn’t modify would improve my SL
Edward Tarber: it’s more like searching a tree
Stranger Nightfire: some creators give their products names that make them utterly impossible to find, I can think of two things that literally I could not find for years till I happened to stumble across them again
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes and I have an artwork by Bryn Oh in my inventory that has been lost for years, I simply cannot remember what it was called
Sheila Yoshikawa: I DO have a crude set of folder headings, but sometimes I forget and log off before putting something in a folder….
Lyr Lobo: some of those lost items, Sheila, are either hard to index until your inventory gets under a certain size or if the name matched content outside of SL, removed by the digital rights tool (in some cases).
Beth Ghostraven: Sheila, you can search your inventory by creator, maybe you could find Bryn’s art that way
Al Supercharge: how do u search by creator ?
Beth Ghostraven: in Firestorm, click on the gear, and click on Search By…
Sheila Yoshikawa: ah I use the SL browser
Beth Ghostraven: oh Sheila, I would never survive hunts without firestorm’s Area Search, lol
Al Supercharge: there is no FILTER for creator in the SL viewer 🙁
Lyr Lobo laughs
Lyr Lobo: didn’t realize that, Al…there is still in Viewer One compatible Third Party viewers
Lyr Lobo: I haven’t used the SL viewer in a long while tho
Sheila Yoshikawa: OK for the last 15 minutes
Sheila Yoshikawa: If YOU were Santa
Kali Pizzaro: So for santa you are asking to make you more organised and disciplined to organise your inventory 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: what would you feel you could give to virtual worlds?
Kali Pizzaro: So can I be MS Claus
Sheila Yoshikawa: say if you had magic powers and lots of money – or just a lot more time
Sheila Yoshikawa: yep Kali
Kali Pizzaro: 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: Actually I would like to magically create welcome areas that were matched to people’s wants, so when they came into SL they were transported to somewhere that had something that interested them–a kind of sorting hat, but with more than 4 options (I recently visited Warner Brothers Making of Harry Potter in the physical world, it reminded me of Potter world…)
Lyr Lobo: adaptive spaces
Edward Tarber: I would love to provide the browser based virtual world for newbies … easy to use, easy to create
Birdie Newcomb: If I were Santa, I’d open Yazdi’s Junkyard again
Kali Pizzaro: I would a magic wand and suddenly everyone would realise the fantastic positive assets people get from VWs already for example a quote sorry from my thesis (I know I am boring you now) but I think this sums it up nicely – “Friendship, beautiful surroundings…these things mean so much. I just think of it as love…love that motivates ppl [people] here to share beauty they create with others…love expressed by hugs, discussion, concern… all of it… just love…and the power of love to heal and give us a focus outside of rl [real life] ‘issues’ that we cannot control and sometimes, feel victimized by. Love and laughter have had a huge positive effect on my physical issues as well as on my feelings of loneliness and isolation in rl.” (Mary, First Diary May 2014)
Stranger Nightfire: one suggestion for people who have a lot of outfits – you don’t want to put outfits in subfolders because that messes up the functionality of SL outfits – but what you can do is name the outfits with prefixes – like Historical – Victorian – Whatever
Stranger Nightfire: that way they get sorted out alphabetically
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): If I were Santa I would give virtual worlds a critical function within enterprises to unleash innovation and wellbeing across professional and personal life. Worlds must be interoperable and secure. Now… how to do that *smiles* in my lifetime please
Camie Rembrandt: very sweet, Kali
Lyr Lobo grins at Delightful and nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: 🙂 Delightful – and Kali
Camie Rembrandt: the beauty is here in vws, but also the ugliness – just like in the physical world
Kali Pizzaro: exactly
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): The browser-based viewer could have entry on a relevant web page.. Educator web page would offer entry to educator-intro Island. Maybe not on SL, but in opensim– where we control things like that.
Birdie Newcomb: in the eye of the beholder…
Sheila Yoshikawa: and if you were to give an Xmas gift to the Lindens
Sheila Yoshikawa: what would it be
Kali Pizzaro: but for many the positive outweighs the neg
Sheila Yoshikawa: what gift would you leave on their pixel doorstep?
Birdie Newcomb: broader imagination
Sheila Yoshikawa: 😉
Kali Pizzaro: more time to explore
Sheila Yoshikawa: good one Birdie
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Fearlessness from abundant love
Kali Pizzaro: and teach and create my own company to teach 😉
Lyr Lobo: collaboration tools to leverage and crowdsource new design features and interactive tools through resident participation, for the Linden gift. Imagine what we could accomplish if everyone contributed their ideas and pieces of the puzzle
Camie Rembrandt: @Kali vws can take you to beautiful places – emotionally speaking
Kali Pizzaro: and research
Sheila Yoshikawa: ooo some wonderful creative ideas here
Sheila Yoshikawa: “your imagination”
Camie Rembrandt: @Kali there have been some experiments with mindfulness in vws
Sheila Yoshikawa: is that still a strapline for SL, by the way?
Kali Pizzaro: nods
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes it is
Stranger Nightfire: it is interesting to remember that with the exception of the basic land and water and such, all of SL is user created
Camie Rembrandt: I use vws to create a setting that helps me to write
Sheila Yoshikawa: my problem is thinking ahead, my problem is not enjoying the moment …..
Lyr Lobo: good will, love, caring and values based on character strengths are qualities that I would anchor with Kali’s wish
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Ah yes, stay in the present
Edward Tarber: the content is user created, but LL creates features they think to be important and not what users would want/need
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes perhaps if we surround the Lindens with positive energy and love they will do the things we want 😉
Lyr Lobo: how content is experienced depends on the viewer to some extent and on our imagination and interpretation
Sheila Yoshikawa: [I mean – I don’t have a problem enjoying the moment]
Edward Tarber: replace “love” with “money” and it will happen 😉
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Birdie Newcomb: May the Lindens continue the journey
Camie Rembrandt: the viewer and the system requirements 🙂
Lyr Lobo grins at Edward and starts humming the song “Can’t buy me love…”
Edward Tarber: hahaha
Camie Rembrandt: having a gaming computer does help. I cannot explain “beauty in vws” to someone who is seeing everything as gray blobs
Kali Pizzaro: 😉
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): exchange value for money and there is great hope
Stranger Nightfire: the skeleton crew that are currently in charge of SL seem to be a decent and caring bunch, and technically the are working wonders considering how limited they are in number, we should remember to acknowledge them more and give them our thanks
Sheila Yoshikawa: @ Stranger re the “skeleton crew” – yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: and on that positive note
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that’s it for this week! I think I will trawl through and pull out the wishes to make a list!
Beth Ghostraven: This was great! Thanks, Sheila!
Camie Rembrandt:Sheila Yoshikawa: you may wish to say some words
Sheila Yoshikawa: about the Christmas PARTY which takes place next week–skating! Dancing! Presents! food and drink! all to be experienced this time next week. We have also a DJ
Delightful (delightful.doowangle): Love the snow and frosted leaves and branches. Thank you!
ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): ok — Useful discussion. I look forward to January.
Kali Pizzaro: please spread the word all welcome
Edward Tarber: great … virtual food … more pixels, less calories
Beth Ghostraven: I hope to see you all at OSCC this weekend too, in OpenSim!
Kali Pizzaro: tada we aim to please
Camie Rembrandt: yes, I love virtual food
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks to everyone
Camie Rembrandt: virtual food is highly photogenic and has zero calories 😀